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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

livingafi.com

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#161

Post by sergioisidoro »

legohead wrote: post #136
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I know exactly what makes me happy -- playing video games, eating good food, living in a nice climate (CA or Hawaii), and traveling the world. Unfortunately my happiness comes with a price tag.

You can have nice weather and nice food for an affordable price tag outside of the US. you're probably leaving something out of the description of what makes you happy

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#162

Post by zoba »

amishAmigo wrote: post #134
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

You live "among" them meaning "surrounded by" or "as a member of" their community?

Surrounded by and interact with. I'm not Amish myself.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#163

Post by neogodless »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #100

A thing the FIRE community misses: The felt sense of Agency is VERY different between a) still making some income, feeling like your hand is still somewhat on the wheel and b) sitting in the back seat, with nothing to do but continually recalculating if / how long your nest egg will last (this quickly turns pathological) I believe the slow build up of stress in B) is unmitigable (probably goes against our species’ DN…

> A thing the FIRE community misses

Do they? I mean, no doubt individuals might miss this. I don't think "the community" misses this. Lots of people are very aware of how agency plays into life satisfaction. In fact, being compelled to work for someone and do what their boss tells them to do severely impedes their agency.

And a lot of post-FIRE reports are that money is much less of a concern than it ever was while working. Because once you are completely behind the wheel of your life, you often find work you really enjoy, that also happens to add some extra money to that nest egg. Most reports I've read indicate that money has actually grown while they were "retired." Even LivingAFi reports this:

> I still have an amazing stash of money. I mean, I was able to take close to five straight years off work and still have more than I started with, inflation-adjusted

He later explains going back to work in more detail:

> My fiancé is a librarian and she doesn’t make a ton of money. This drastically changes the early-retirement numbers for the two of us.

> Anyway — bottom line is that my own asset sheet funds the lion’s share of our future together.

> Additionally, I’m spending more than that 30K/yr I had estimated back in 2015. I’m at 40K now and we’ll be at 55K together I think, once we consolidate assets and buy a home.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#164

Post by simmanian »

legohead wrote: post #136
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I know exactly what makes me happy -- playing video games, eating good food, living in a nice climate (CA or Hawaii), and traveling the world. Unfortunately my happiness comes with a price tag.

I was exactly like this for a while, until I realized my happiness does not have to depend on anything. Like what the sibling comment says, if you keep an open mind and try things out, you'd be surprised to see what can help you achieve sustainable happiness.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#165

Post by temp8964 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #95
temp8964 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people can choose not having spouse or kids. What do you mean there is zero alternative? There are people born rich enough to not have to work, but do they live a happy life by not working all the way?

> Of course people can choose not having spouse or kids. What do you mean there is zero alternative? You're doing that thing where you claim there's freedom of choice because you're ignoring the punishment inflicted on one choice. The choice not to commit to a long-term relationship has had severe financial implications for centuries, especially if you are female. Until the invention of effective birth control, the c…

The whole point is that even with material support, people still need to live with spouse and kids, and having a regular work (not necessarily work for someone else), to have a happy life.

Yes, modern technology and economy makes it easier for you to live alone but it does not change the basic human needs. Eventually you will need a spouse (same or opposite sex), not just for the money, not for the sex, but for the intimacy. And you will want to have kids when you get older. And as other comments pointed out, you want to live with people who really cares about you and you care about them, i.e. your family.

There is nothing magic about this. Just some people realize this earlier than others.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#166

Post by sokoloff »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

> Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" Great insight that is worth repeating. One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down…

> For the average FIRE person working a $100-200K/year job, they might be better off scaling back to a sustainable 40hr/week job and making a point of taking vacations and doing activities in their off time.

In software right now, I think it’s not difficult to have a sustainable low-six-figure job where you take vacations and have activities and off time to enjoy them.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#167

Post by ausbah »

temp8964 wrote: post #30
kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

The conclusion came to me is that extreme working and extreme no-working are both bad in the long run. All you need is a work-family-life balance. I am also glad that the author now opens the door for getting married and even having a kid. Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. The psychological / economic needs for living with a f…

sorry but what? work & family over the past 70-200 years is vastly different from work & family before them (most of human history).

the focus of former for most everyone was just to survive; you worked (probably sustenance farming) to survive, you married for resources, you had children to help with work, etc.

modern work and family is vastly different because work isn't solely motivated by the need for survival, many people today are privileged enough to think about other motivating factors like meaning, prestige, and satisfaction. only now do people had the ability to question things like how they structure relations and relationships, and find what works for them

I think trying to extrapolate in the way you are is flawed

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#168

Post by heurist »

My dream replacement for full time work: study and make art (a hobby I have plateaued in); exercise; become a better software developer and data analyst (I'm a manager these days); work part time (very part time) on a couple businesses I am involved with - mostly in creative R&D. I've recently become aware of an "elite" engineering firm that looks far into the future to build original and innovative technologies for clients - I would focus similarly.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#169

Post by kbenson »

temp8964 wrote: post #57
p1esk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. Vast majority of people did not “choose” all that throughout human history. There was zero alternative. They had to work to survive. If you want to make your argument you should only look at those who were born rich enough to not have to work.

Of course people can choose not having spouse or kids. What do you mean there is zero alternative? There are people born rich enough to not have to work, but do they live a happy life by not working all the way?

> Of course people can choose not having spouse or kids. What do you mean there is zero alternative?

It's worth noting that these people are by definition going to be outliers in the population, as they don't reproduce, so there will always be a selection bias the other way.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#170

Post by jancsika »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I'm basically the opposite of you.

There is a pile of merge requests I need to review when I get time. And the reason I want to review X, Y, and Z is because I personally desire to see improvements X, Y, and Z to the niche FOSS software I maintain.

Funny thing is, we are on a forum named "Hacker News" and I'd speculate that I'm the outlier and yours is the common case.

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