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Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

bbc.com

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Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#161

Post by zeruch »

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

"It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality." I think this certainly used to be the case; when geeks ran the valley roost so to speak, there was capitalistic ambitions coupled/borne from a sincere interest in tech. Now the former drives the latter, with characteristic milquetoast results (this isn't to say that the tech interest now isn't sincere, just that it's "source" and how it's shaped is different).

It's a subtle but critical shift in the drivers of the industry at an individual level, and it bubbles up through the firms those individuals build and try to sustain.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#162

Post by arcturus17 »

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

Utopian thinking almost never comes to fruition because by definition it discounts a lot of negatives. It rarely comes from a place of first-principles reasoning about human behavior. And above all, human beings cannot see into the future so any vision is always incomplete and flawed.

Nevertheless, as much as there are heaps of shit on the internet - digital surveillance, bottomless wells of inane addiction, hateful discourse, etc. - I’d say there is a net benefit overall, and where the 90s techno-optimists were merely wrong was in degree and concrete detail.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#163

Post by luffapi »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #134
snowwrestler wrote: post #78

Does anyone think that Google cares about the free and open Internet anymore? I don’t mean they oppose it, I just mean it doesn’t seem like it’s on the list of things the company prioritizes. It sometimes seems like Google’s internal self-image is stuck in 2001, when they were an idealistic search engine company whose goal was to organize the world’s information. Today they are an ad company, running some office apps…

> I don’t mean they oppose it, They do. They want an Internet where they control the flow of information.

For real. Chrome is one of the biggest threats to an open internet that exists today. Every week we see some Chrome-led attempt to make the Internet more proprietary and under Google’s control. They interviewed one of the worst perpetrators of the threat against internet freedom.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#164

Post by dqpb »

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

Many tools have increased net freedom and equality.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#166

Post by wutbrodo »

allyourhorses wrote: post #117
Clewza313 wrote: post #29

> Third, a lot of Pichai's big bets have failed: Google Glass, Google Plus, Google Wave, Project Loon Every single one of these predates Pichai, who only became CEO in 2015: * Google Wave was already turned down in 2012 * Google Plus launched in 2011 and the writing was on the wall by 2015 * Google Glass consumer edition was discontinued in Jan 2015 before Pichai started * Loon is the only arguable exception; it was…

> However, it was also an experiment from day 1, not "the next big thing" Not sure I understand that distinction. If I label all my projects as experiments, do I also get to escape culpability for their failure while loading on the self-praise when they succeed?

> If I label all my projects as experiments, do I also get to escape culpability for their failure while loading on the self-praise when they succeed

Sure, if your funding sources are okay with spending 100% on a high-variance, low-hit-rate manner of output. Every single Google earnings call I've been on has the CEO reassuring investors about their high-risk "moonshots", emphasizing that they're only 5% of Google's budget. You'll note that the parent comment didn't use that reason to justify the other failures, which were not explicitly classified pre hoc as high-risk experiments.

I'm not sure how you think the answer could be anything other than yes. If you were working on high-risk moonshot private projects and either self-funding them or being funded by someone comfortable with the risk of your endeavor, do you think you _wouldn't_ "escape culpability" yet be rewarded for successes?

(Note also that you're using an extremely odd definition of "escaping culpability". Moonshots failing is the _expected_ outcome, and pointing that out isn't helping anyone "escape culpability".

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#167

Post by wutbrodo »

m1sta_ wrote: post #14

I do hope that people read the article and comment on its contents rather than just getting stuck in a loop of "Google bad".

Haha where do you think you are

There're lots of things about HN that make it better than many other fora, but its collective wild-eyed, frothing reaction to literally the word Google is not one of them. You may as well be on 4chan for threads like these

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#168

Post by zdragnar »

Dah00n wrote: post #142
zimpenfish wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I find this bit amusing: "That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I'd point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say." The last 4 years of US politics (and 20? of UK politics) have given the lie to that belief. [edit: added UK politics because they're just as bad]

Are you saying most people would answer Yes to "Are politicians trustworthy?" because then I clearly live in a completely different bubble than you do and have a very different interpretation of TV speaking heads talking about the issue. In my bubble at least 90% would say that US politicians are not trustworthy (no idea about UK). Not much different if you ask about Trump or Biden either.

Individual congressmen and women tend to have high favorability ratings in the locality that voted for them, despite congress overall consistently having practically nonexistant support, and political parties not faring significantly better.

In short, every politician is trustworthy to the people who voted for them, but not the rest- kindof an inverse of the effect, really.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#169

Post by jeffbee »

imwillofficial wrote: post #68
jeffbee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s an interesting theory, any data to support it? Has this Cernovich guy done stuff like this in the past?

I have as much data to support my theory as the other person does to support theirs. All we know is the page isn't in the results on Google. And yes, Cernovich has a history of PR stunts.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#170

Post by Dah00n »

saalweachter wrote: post #152
Dah00n wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying most people would answer Yes to "Are politicians trustworthy?" because then I clearly live in a completely different bubble than you do and have a very different interpretation of TV speaking heads talking about the issue. In my bubble at least 90% would say that US politicians are not trustworthy (no idea about UK). Not much different if you ask about Trump or Biden either.

Eh, your view of other people's cynicism is too absolute. People distrust politicians ... except . Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except... You see this with Congress writ large. People hate Congress, its approval ratings are through the floor. But they like their own Congresspeople. Sure, gerrymandering, safe districts, etc, but by and large people a…

>Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except...

As I wrote in another reply I believe this to be A Very American Thing. At least I have never heard of anyone here (in Denmark) seeing themselves as represented by a person. It is more of a party thing. I'm sure I live in a bubble (don't we all) so my experience might not match any official numbers but in my experience people seem to just change to another party at the next election if they feel the representation does not match their expectation. This likely makes it easier not to get caught up in having to defend a specific person that "can do no wrong". But again, I have not looked it up and it is all based on my own experience and intuition. I do know that election day sees a much higher turnout here (~%85) than in the US (>65%?) though, but is it related to distrusting politicians? Who knows.

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