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How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

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Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#161

Post by codingdave »

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Keep in mind the prize started before streaming did. You did not have the same data points they do today, as they were reading the thumbs up/down from DVDs shipping. Nor was the UI full of the same level of marketing as it is today, especially for all their original content, as none of that existed.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#162

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #125
szszrk wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To their defense - their catalog in some countries (like mine) is so small that I was able to just ... browse through the whole offer in 10 minutes. I've managed to binge-watch everything I liked in two months (while working full time remotely) and cancel Prime. With such a small catalog suggestions will mostly be wrong, as there isn't enough content to fill the whole suggestions tab :)

Which makes you wonder why they even bother with suggestions in the first place, instead of doing the obvious thing: giving you a searchable list of all movies they have for your region. Given that the former is a major engineering project, while the latter is a junior-level interview question, one has to assume they're trying to confuse their users on purpose.

Nah, it's presumably because they just lift and shift the US code to whatever new region they're in, without actually investing any thought into it.

This is a recurrent problem with US based services, as residents of the USA tend to forget that they are a very large country.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#163

Post by blowski »

gameswithgo wrote: post #160

Netflix suggestions used to be amazing, but sometime after their contest they totally changed how it works and they became useless. This article maybe hints at why with a short “predicting consumption was more important than ratings anyway” why? what does he mean? netflix had a killer advantage with the old rating system and then dumped it why?

There's a subtle but valuable (for Netflix) difference between "you watched x so you'll probably like y" vs "if we can get you to start watching this show you'll probably pay another month's subscription".

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#164

Post by hellbannedguy »

input_sh wrote: post #153
hellbannedguy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to buy better old movies. Their catalogue of award winning, or good movies is very low. I think the problem is the studios figured why rent them to Netflix when we can put up our own OnDemand service? So, Netflix was at a conundrum, "How do we get material so people won't leave, and we can raise our prices?" Overpaid Netflix MBA, "I got it! Let's throw money at directors, and writers. The directors will mak…

> They need to buy better old movies. I believe it's much more in their interest to buy old TV shows. A good movie will keep you occupied for what, two hours? Seinfeld: almost 19 days of watch time. Friends: over 5 days. Community was barely ever popular before Netflix bought it, now there's plenty of people that enjoyed it for 2 days and 7 hours of watch time (its subreddit went from 266k on April 2020 to 482k right…

I watch good movies many times. I keep them on a loop while studying, or working. In college, I always had an Oliver Stone film on. At the time the duality between good, and evil, was always on my mind.

I must have watched Wall Street, and Platoon, a few hundred times.

I won't even estimate how many times I have watched Hictchcock films.

And the number of times I have watched Giant, or Citizen Cane, is embarrassing.

I have old movies playing all the time. I don't actually watch them, but I find them comforting in a weird way, esoecially black, and white films. I think the old, good movies take a part of my brain away from reality? I listen to them while working,

Yes--how can I find Platoon comforting? At that point in my life, Charlie Sheen's character, and his father's, reminded me there are moral people still left. Maybe only in fantasy though?

I get what you are saying though. I have The Andy Griffith show on all the time.

(fun murky fact, I think true, fact about the Andy Griffith show. They didn't bother to copyright the episodes. For years people could sell copies of the show without copyright concerns. I think it's copy written now though.)

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#165

Post by alexilliamson »

birdyrooster wrote: post #112
manigandham wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not enough content for completely new listings every time, and people do watch things repeatedly, especially TV shows.

I get the value of rewatching stuff, but some people take it to an extreme and I suspect these were the same people whose parents let them watch the same children’s show/movie over and over and over.

I was one of those kids and hate rewatching things now.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#166

Post by alexilliamson »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #93
doublescoop wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company reportedly had 100,000 DVD titles in their catalog, so yeah. Remember how old this contest was.

Their online selection was enormous ~2010 when they still had the DVD business, and crucially all of the movie studies still thought online was a fad and were happy to cut deals to stream their entire catalogs for pennies. Netflix was unbelievable back then and felt like it had every movie in existence. Over the years all of that back catalog has been clawed back and Netflix morphed into more of a showcase for their…

DVD Netflix exists still! I got it recently somewhat as a funny bit.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#167

Post by mhb »

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Your reference is whatever crap Netflix currently uses. The algorithm they were using at the time of the prize was actually good to begin with. I think they may also have a smaller catalog of movies now. So that wouldn't help.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#168

Post by jmilloy »

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

The Netflix catalogue, and the movie rental/streaming ecosystem in general, was completely different when the AI challenge was going on. It was a DVD postal service. Your ratings mattered, and almost any movie you wanted was available. No one was bored scrolling Netflix trying to decide how to kill two hours before bed.

They are clearly not using the ratings based automatic recommendations any more. It's not even relevant given the limited and generally low-quality content available. It's just about keeping enough people paying.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#169

Post by jmilloy »

mhb wrote: post #167
koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Your reference is whatever crap Netflix currently uses. The algorithm they were using at the time of the prize was actually good to begin with. I think they may also have a smaller catalog of movies now. So that wouldn't help.

Yes, the streaming movie catalogue today is probably <1% of the DVD catalogue from the AI challenge days.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#170

Post by jmilloy »

alexilliamson wrote: post #166
qbasic_forever wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their online selection was enormous ~2010 when they still had the DVD business, and crucially all of the movie studies still thought online was a fad and were happy to cut deals to stream their entire catalogs for pennies. Netflix was unbelievable back then and felt like it had every movie in existence. Over the years all of that back catalog has been clawed back and Netflix morphed into more of a showcase for their…

DVD Netflix exists still! I got it recently somewhat as a funny bit.

As of last year when I finally quit, the DVD catalogue was still great, but service was so slow that it costs less to rent movies to stream individually.
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