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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#161

Post by floatboth »

vetinari wrote: post #81
benbristow wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. Or they could perhaps find a way to build a piece of software that will enable it automatically...

> I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. They've added restrictions since: 8th gen Intel Core or 2nd gen AMD Zen required.

That's just some list in the documentation, mostly intended for OEMs building new computers with pre-installed Windows.

NO WAY there will be literal cpuid checks excluding earlier processors.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#162

Post by koyote »

hughrr wrote: post #102
Todd wrote: post #57

Microsoft is late to the party here. This has been core to Apple's business model for years. Here's an example of OS support for the MacBook Air: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air#Supported_macOS_re... The arbitrary cadence of abandonment is amazingly consistent and has no basis in hardware capabilities.

I’m not sure that’s a problem. I usually thoroughly wear them out before they go obsolete and quite frankly I don’t want to use a 7+ year old computer. They’re pretty awful.

Really? I still use my now over 8 year old Thinkpad (upgraded screen, hdd, ram and replaced the keyboard after an orange juice 'incident') and it feels as quick as my 2 year-old work laptop.

Moore's law is long dead for consumer perception of speed, even other components have stagnated lately. RAM size and HDD space has not really moved much in the last 5 years for a regular laptop; CPUs have gotten a bit faster but the average user will not notice the difference in their every day workflow.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#163

Post by stephc_int13 »

I do not plan to replace my computer until I need to. I still use screens from 2008, they are working perfectly fine and might live an other 12 years.

If I can't install Win11 on my computer, then I'll simply won't install it before a long time.

We're not in the 90s anymore.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#164

Post by JorgeGT »

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

Fun fact: Microsoft will happily sell you today a $3500 Surface Studio 2 with a W11-unsupported i7-7820: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#165

Post by vvillena »

jmkni wrote: post #108
jbluepolarbear wrote: post #98

This is going to kill adoption of the new gaming features. I am really excited for Direct Storage on windows, but what incentive do the developers have to support it if only a small subset of their users have machines new enough to run it. This is exactly the same as the DirectX 10 disaster on Vista. It took a long time for developers to switch from 9 to 10. Most skipped 10 for 11 because it had the same windows supp…

Maybe I'm getting old, but it's mental to me that a regular SDD over SATA3 is now regarded as slow , and you need an NVME SSD to run things quickly. I have a gaming PC and really can't tell the difference between games loaded between the two.

Because the games don't take advantage of the higher bandwidth. In fact, they probably don't even take advantage of the SSD, because games are still built so that they work when installed on spinning drives. The advantage of SSDs is the random access time, but if you are streaming continuous data, it's only about triple the speed of an HDD.

A NVME PCIe 4.0 SSD can be up to 15 times faster than a SATA SSD. The difference is much much bigger.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#168

Post by Sebb767 »

illys wrote: post #129

There is nothing new here. Any new Windows version has transformed the previous generation of PCs into trash since people moved from DOS as a main user interface to Windows 3. And people say "my PC is slow because it is getting old"... Even if the hardware has the exact same performance and almost the same usage like in its first day. Why should they stop when customers comply and give them money? ... for ethics? for…

> Any new Windows version has transformed the previous generation of PCs into trash since people moved from DOS as a main user interface to Windows 3.

The difference is that earlier hardware upgrades were important and did improve performance heavily. 2001 just saw the advent of 1 Ghz CPUs [0]. In 2011, quad-core CPUs at 3.5 Ghz were the standard, probably a performance upgrade of an order of magnitude, at least. But since then? The i5 2500 does still hold a bit of water to the Ryzen 5 5600 [0]. Sure, it has more cores and more single-core performance, but it's nowhere near that much of a difference. Windows 10 still runs perfectly fine on this hardware, even better than Windows 7 did - and not by accident, MS did optimize that!

This is absolutely a new low for Microsoft.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_microproces...

[1] https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500-vs-... (yes, I know it's MemeBenchmark, but the general values should be solid enough)

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#170

Post by zeusk »

marcodiego wrote: post #144
zeusk wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how not supporting old devices is extinguish for Linux but okay. I work at MS so I have some background, but even I was vocally opposed to this. The real pushback for hardware floor came from IHVs and PMs. IHVs don't want to support your old hardware beyond 2-5 years thanks to what they're seeing in phone market. We've had multiple user impacting bugs that graphic vendors I won't name would not fix because t…

Check how more complicated it is to install linux and your own compiled kernels with secure boot enabled and a tpm 2.0 chip.

I did a quick bing (hah, jk I used google) but didn't find anything other than having to install some tpm2 packages to use the module.

Also, if tpm2.0 is as redundant as people are making it out to be, couldn't they just disable it in BIOS along with microsoft secureboot keys?

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