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Why Can’t I Sleep?

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Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#161

Post by msinca »

Clampower wrote: post #4

Since about three weeks ago I cannot sleep. It’s very strange. I know the feeling of anxiety and how it leads to not sleeping, it’s something I’ve had in the past at very stressful jobs. I’ve learned techniques to deal with this, like breathing and mindfulness. But right now this feels different. I’m tired, I’m lying in bed, and I don’t have any stressful thoughts. Yet somehow I just don’t fall asleep. It feels like…

I struggled with a very similar situation 2 years ago and my heart goes out to you - it can be brutal.

But I did want to offer a ray of hope. After trying everything under the sun for months (including benzos), someone told me about CBTI (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia). Rather than go into all the details, just Google it. Its really the only proven successful (non-drug) way of dealing with insomnia (notice I did not say 'cure').

My only advice for those looking into CBTI is DO NOT TRY TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN. Its a very rigorous program that should be supervised by a doctor who specializes in CBTI. If you try it on your own, you are likely to fail - it can be a challenging program to follow through on.

Be careful about the benzos. They are extremely habit forming (again Google it) and can be difficult to stop.

One key point that my CBTI doctor talked about. Sleep is generally a combination of 2 factors. Your natural daily rhythm (day = awake; night = sleep) and how long its been since you last slept (ie. nap at 6PM is bad idea). If either one of these gets out of whack, sleep will be difficult. CBTI helps you align these two factors.

Lastly, in my case, I believe the insomnia was a symptom of a depression that I found myself in. Treating the depression along with CBTI was (literally) a lifesaver for me.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#162

Post by tinyhouse »

sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

> So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise.

For me actually following sleep experts advice helped. Particularly, CBT-I. The idea is very simple. Two important sleep factors are what your brain is used to and how tired you are. If your brain is used to wake up in the middle of the night, you can possibly change it by making yourself very tired. You start by picking a consistent sleep window that works for you. Let's assume you get 7 hours of sleep but need to spend 9 hours in bed for that. You pick a 7 hours window (e.g., 11p - 6am) and you put an alarm clock and get up regardless if you're tired or not. In the beginning you're going to wake up in the middle of the night and be very tired in the morning, but ideally after some time you'll be tired enough and sleep through the night. This sleep restriction practice can be dangerous of course, and it's not recommended unless you can get at least 5 hours of sleep each night.

Over time you can adjust your sleep window as needed. The key is to stick to your sleep routine, following all sleep hygiene tips, and maybe most importantly waking up every day at the same time even if you went to bed later than your usual bed time. That's why I still use an alarm clock even though I don't need to and some research suggest it's better to wake up naturally. So far it's been working for me, might not work for others.

Another tip I have is meditation. Other already mentioned they listen to stuff like audio books etc. When I cannot fall a sleep I would usually listen to some sleep meditation with a sleep eye mask. It works better for me than what most sleep experts recommend - leaving bed and reading book or something like that.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#163

Post by toomanybeersies »

sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

One of the biggest boons of working from home has been that I have a lot more flexibility in my working hours.

We have an informal policy of not scheduling meetings before 11 AM, so even when I don't get to sleep until 3 AM (which is common), I can still get ~8 hours of sleep.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#164

Post by Rendello »

wruza wrote: post #149

Ironically, I fixed my moderate chronic insomnia succesfully by going to a doctor with a completely unrelated( citation needed ) set of symptoms. My CBT therapist wanted me to fall asleep during the appointment to perform another technique, but obviously I could not. He said to not worry and explained a routine which I’m happy to share to those who didn’t try yet: - lay, relax, comfort^ - do not move further - do not…

I try this but occasionally I mentally "wake up" as my body is asleep and I start freaking out mentally. It's a form of sleep paralysis I suppose, but without the hallucinations that other people tend to have. The feeling of being mentally alert but not being able to control my own movements or even my breathing is terrifying, and I usually try to move as much as I can and can wake my body up within a few minutes.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#165

Post by lanstin »

wruza wrote: post #152
jm__87 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who had suffered with insomnia for decades and mostly resolved it in the past few years. I'm not sure why you think eating in the morning is necessary for getting a good sleep - I rarely eat breakfast and usually sleep great these days. The thing that helped me was going to a therapist and doing CBT-I. Probably the top three things for me were just getting out of bed if I couldn't sleep, forcing myself t…

learning to be okay Cannot stress enough how I second that. A nervous person (who you, a reader, completely are, despite thinking you’re normal) is at risk of self-feeding the problem they have with something. Also as a person who couldn’t find interest in life events anymore in general (not suicidal, just boring to death), CBT theme itself is like a fresh breath. Like as a geek you never knew what a computer is and…

Yeah. A lot of people think therapy is about changing yourself, but honestly there is nothing shamefully wrong with most of us. We need shy, anxious but smart and kind people and we need oblivious plow ahead people and charming slightly narcissistic charismatic folks. We need some contrariness and some obedience. Some deep thinkers and some rush in and try it folks. Creative folks and measure twice cut once folks. Even with sleep, if you have to keep your little group safe at night in pre history having a variety of sleep schedules is good. The old people get the dawn watch, teenagers stay up first watch, the sleep shifted get second watch. It all works out.

Therapy makes a difference thru acceptance and working with you as you are more than fixing. Part of that is getting a more realistic way of perceiving your self as you are, and part of that is finding the strengths in how you are. Also taking very good care of your precious life. Sleep when you are tired. Eat when you are hungry. Seek help when you could benefit from it. It you hate someone, don’t hang around. Etc etc.

Between the acceptance, self awareness, less shame about your actual self, and a life that meets your needs, therapy can transform your life, but not by transforming you. You are fine.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#166

Post by ta1234567890 »

411111111111111 wrote: post #148
ta1234567890 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the real problem though is the schedule the world runs on. Yes! People have different circadian rhythms. Also teenagers tend to naturally be night owls. But the world doesn’t care much. Even having schedule flexibility at work, if you have kids that you need to take to school, then you have to follow their schedule.

Most seditary people turn into "night owls" if they don't pay attention. Your phrasing makes it sound like people can't help themselves, but thats just wrong. Sleeping habits are actually an issue of discipline unless you're suffering from an actual medical condition... Which are extremely rare Either start working out/do cardio or reduce your sleeping time until you're able to go to sleep at the time you wish. some…

You might want to read this: http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/science/variatio...

It is scientifically recognized that people have different circadian rhythms (thus sleep cycles).

And here’s some research about teenage delayed circadian rhythm: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/

You know, sometimes people are not snowflakes that require bullying or discipline to do things “the right way”.

Btw, do you have any references for your claim that most sedentary people will become night owls if they don’t pay attention? Or is it just your own personal perspective?

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#167

Post by zachm0 »

sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

Lol! You say none of the advice from the article really works, and then immediately follow that up by saying what worked for you was... advice that was in the article?

Excerpt from the linked article:

  Don’t force yourself into a consistent bedtime. A regular bedtime is great if you’re sleeping well. But if you can’t fall asleep, trying to force it will only make things worse.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#168

Post by ralusek »

fernandotakai wrote: post #158
wruza wrote: post #149

Ironically, I fixed my moderate chronic insomnia succesfully by going to a doctor with a completely unrelated( citation needed ) set of symptoms. My CBT therapist wanted me to fall asleep during the appointment to perform another technique, but obviously I could not. He said to not worry and explained a routine which I’m happy to share to those who didn’t try yet: - lay, relax, comfort^ - do not move further - do not…

funny enough, i use the techniques that headspace taught me to fall asleep -- which are REALLY similar to the ones you described. focus on your body, focus on your breath, try not to "pay attention" to anything. it totally helped me, and i can now fall asleep much easier than before.

> Focus on your []

> Try not to "pay attention" to anything

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#169

Post by 1980phipsi »

koheripbal wrote: post #117
codingdave wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. True, but that is a self-fulfilling definition. For most people, that advice will work. For the minority for whom it does not work, they have chronic insomnia. It does not invalidate the advice, it just means that some people are out of the norm and need something else. That being said, I agree with you. We all would be healthier if we'd just slee…

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

I 100% agree with this!

It has absolutely changed the way I sleep (combined with not having caffeine with dinner or later). It has to be TV shows that I've either seen before or don't really care about what happens. Only difference is I use the sleep timer and just turn the TV back on if I have trouble falling back asleep.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#170

Post by t-writescode »

the_only_law wrote: post #38
unishark wrote: post #36

> ...extreme night owls (who might naturally sleep, for example, from 2 to 10 a.m.)... Uh what's the next adjective after "extreme"? This reminds me of companies with so-called "flex time" where you have the option to come in as late as 9 if you want to.

I agree it’s probably not extreme, but man I’d kill to have a life compatible with that sleep schedule.

Remote work on the west coast is how I do it.

Stumble in at 10am, leave work at 6pm, most days.

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