The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#161

Post by quanticle » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:01 AM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #59

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

The problem isn't that Bitcoin enables hacking. The problem is, pardon my language, that our cybersecurity is absolute, utter unremediated shit . Every time a corporate PR press release uses the word "sophisticated" to refer to hackers, I roll my eyes. These hackers aren't using processor-level side channel attacks to read secrets out of memory. They're not using Rowhammer to alter encryption keys. They're doing basi…

Just to follow up on the point, here's a Bloomberg piece that states that Colonial Pipeline was because they didn't use 2FA to secure their VPN, which allowed the hackers to compromise their network with a single cracked or sprayed password:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-04/hackers-b...

In terms of security best practices, this ranks right up there with not leaving your keys in the ignition while you go shopping. This is the world in which we live: multimillion dollar corporations being either too cheap, incompetent, or lazy to issue RSA tokens, Yubikeys or phone-based TOTP for their VPNs. And somehow this is the fault of Bitcoin?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#162

Post by fsociety » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #79

quanticle wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet, but it might. Early cars were noisy, slow, finicky and far more polluting than cars today. They're only as useful as they are today because they were allowed to evolve for a hundred and twenty years. Banning Bitcoin because it's used in cybercrime is analogous to banning the Model T because it got used in a bank robbery.

It's much more akin to if a competitor to Ford made a car with a bank-robbing feature.

If Bitcoin had a bank-robbing feature all transactions and wallets would be private. They aren’t.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#163

Post by thehappypm » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #159

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And bitcoin lost 30% of its value in the last month . So yes, the dollar is in fact wonderfully stable by comparison.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

It took a century for USD to swing 99%, how long did it take BTC?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#164

Post by hakfoo » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #159

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And bitcoin lost 30% of its value in the last month . So yes, the dollar is in fact wonderfully stable by comparison.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

The "how much value it loses per century" time scale is unimportant for most applications.

You need a currency to be "not 1923 Germany", because it becomes impossible to plan for anything past your next meal.

But the "loses 100% of the value per century" doesn't really seem to be a hindrance to our real-world financial needs. Lenders are capable of understanding this risk and extending 30+ year mortgages and even those weird century-plus infrastructure bond products.

The whole long-term stability thing seems to be a very narrow scare tactic: a bugabear for those who are wealthy enough to hold a lot of cash, but too naive/risk-averse/fearful to invest it in any meaningful way o beat inflation.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#165

Post by AnimalMuppet » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:44 AM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #159

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And bitcoin lost 30% of its value in the last month . So yes, the dollar is in fact wonderfully stable by comparison.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

The context was exactly bitcoin losing value very rapidly. When thehappypm said that the dollar was stable, that wasn't a claim of "absolutely stable" - it was "far more stable than bitcoin".

I don't know if you're doing it deliberately, but in the context, you're kind of doing a motte-and-bailey here...

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#166

Post by tootahe45 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:49 AM UTC

cgb223 wrote: post #6

Never understood why ransomware didn’t use more anonymous crypto currencies like Monero or ZCash. Doesn’t that better protect the scammers from law enforcement?

- Low liquidity on exchanges for privacy coins, meaning if you order 5m Monero it drastically increases the price

- FSPs may question and refuse to facilitate a Monero purchase due to its niche usage

- Major exchanges don't list XMR and you want as few hoops as possible to allow the victim to pay, can easily just switch your btc for XMR later, that's fairly simple on a decentralized exchange or a shady offshore one.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#167

Post by lowkey » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #164

lowkey wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

The "how much value it loses per century" time scale is unimportant for most applications. You need a currency to be "not 1923 Germany", because it becomes impossible to plan for anything past your next meal. But the "loses 100% of the value per century" doesn't really seem to be a hindrance to our real-world financial needs. Lenders are capable of understanding this risk and extending 30+ year mortgages and even tho…

I appreciate your point of view but if we look at the origin story of Bitcoin and Satoshi’s vision of the hardest money ever created, the fact that all fiat currencies lose value over time is exactly why it was created.

While bitcoin may be volatile in USD over the short term, I can tell you the exact inflation rate of Bitcoin today, tomorrow or 100 years from now. Try that with the US Dollar.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#168

Post by lowkey » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #163

lowkey wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

It took a century for USD to swing 99%, how long did it take BTC?

I’m not sure I understand, has BTC ever lost 99% of it’s value? If I understand correctly, the value of Bitcoin has only gone up over the past 11 years. While the purchasing power of the US dollar has fallen in real terms every single one of those years.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#169

Post by lowkey » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:14 AM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #164

lowkey wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is arguing that Bitcoin is stable. I was simply pointing out that the USD is not as stable as you presume on a long-enough timescale. In fact it loses approximately 100% of its purchasing power per century.

The "how much value it loses per century" time scale is unimportant for most applications. You need a currency to be "not 1923 Germany", because it becomes impossible to plan for anything past your next meal. But the "loses 100% of the value per century" doesn't really seem to be a hindrance to our real-world financial needs. Lenders are capable of understanding this risk and extending 30+ year mortgages and even tho…

“But the "loses 100% of the value per century" doesn't really seem to be a hindrance to our real-world financial needs. Lenders are capable of understanding this risk and extending 30+ year mortgages and even those weird century-plus infrastructure bond products.”

We are going to have to disagree on this point. To me inflation is taxation without representation. It is theft of purchasing power by Central Banks. It disproportionately negatively affects savers or those on fixed incomes and it benefits those closest to the new spending (read Wall Street Bankers) via the Cantillon Effect.

I am less concerned with the needs of lenders to compensate for inflation than I am worried about the disastrous effect it has on those who wish to save for the future.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#170

Post by jude- » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:18 AM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

This is an exchange and banking problem. Someone somewhere is allowing these terrorists to cash out. Find the bank (or country hosting it), cut them off from SWIFT, and apply sanctions until they stop funding terrorism.

Cryptocurrency, like the Internet, is merely the medium.