Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office • Hacker News Board

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#161

Post by bitcuration » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #54

darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Just wait for the mass exodus. Remote work is turning out to be a requirement for hiring people. So once the company starts bleeding (good) people who find remote jobs with other companies, they are going to be difficult/impossible to replace. At some point, the execs will have to suck it up and offer remote work.

No they won't. The very reason of the management chain is manage people, in arm distance, not remotely. The execs understand this best kept secret better than anyone else.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#162

Post by bitcuration » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:14 AM UTC

aseerdbnarng wrote: post #67

darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Yes to all of this. My personal feeling is WFH is a threat to those who actors who need the office as a place to be seen.

A best kept secret finally got exposed thanks to the prolonged pandemic related wfh, an unprecedented awakening.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#163

Post by mbrodersen » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

Offering remote work is a competitive advantage. You get access to a larger pool of talent. The smart companies realise this. If you are a manager and you can’t figure out how to manage people remotely, then you are an incompetent manager.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#164

Post by nathanaldensr » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

zucked wrote: post #112

dcolkitt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those people are only struggling in the first place because the broken office-first model required them to relocate to a metro where they have no family or social network. This is particularly bad in the tech industry, because the major tech metros are notoriously unsocial. People on the West Coast tend to have fewer friends and be less outgoing[1], so it's particularly hard to meet people when you relocate…

I won't argue with this being a difficult issue, but I also want to push back a little bit on this notion that forcing people into a situation is a totally net bad thing. As an adult, you have precious few opportunities to make lasting, deep friendships. I consider myself an outgoing person with lots of shallow friendships, but my best, deepest friends are still the ones from High School, College, and the surrounding…

To be frank, my life energy is not yours to consume. Your "shared experience" requires interaction from others, many of whom do not want to be giving it. Your perspective of "being forced to be somewhere" as a positive thing is selfish and unempathetic.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#165

Post by bonniemuffin » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

wrs wrote: post #36

I'm trying and failing to think of any important part of "company culture" that only works for people in the same room. Culture is made of shared values (codified in actions, not PowerPoints), communication norms, peer reactions, shared history, inside jokes...all of that stuff can work remotely. If your company has more than one office it already has to work remotely.

I miss doing jigsaw puzzles with my coworkers. Online games don't feel the same. Culture things are mostly tiny and each seem like no big deal, but collectively, I do think it's really hard to replicate remotely.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#166

Post by wrs » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

GavinMcG wrote: post #109

wrs wrote: post #36

I'm trying and failing to think of any important part of "company culture" that only works for people in the same room. Culture is made of shared values (codified in actions, not PowerPoints), communication norms, peer reactions, shared history, inside jokes...all of that stuff can work remotely. If your company has more than one office it already has to work remotely.

If your company has more than one office, they each have their own culture, which hews more or less closely to the cultural commonalities between offices. Shared values, communication norms, peer reactions, shared history, and inside jokes can exist when people aren't in the same room, but that culture tends to be a lot thinner. It would be more fruitful to discuss whether that's a good or bad thing—the bare existenc…

Sure, there is office culture, but I think “company culture” has to be what’s in common between the offices, by definition, no?

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#167

Post by irq11 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 3:46 AM UTC

mnd999 wrote: post #61

irq11 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about the US. Did you read it?

So what? The issues it raises are pretty universal.

So, I made a comment about how vaccines are widely available in the US, on an article about the US, and you’re nitpicking it because you have an ideological problem with what I wrote.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#168

Post by irq11 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 3:47 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #132

irq11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herd immunity is not a fixed vaccination percentage pulled from Anthony Fauci’s latest media appearance. It’s the immunity level at which cases stabilize and begin to decline. It is defined by observation. Cases are at all-time lows in the most vaccinated locations, and are dropping rapidly nationwide.

No, it's the level at which people not eligible for vaccination are no longer at risk because most of their peers are incapable of spreading the disease. The political aspects are just some stuff some people made up.

No, it’s a scientific term. It has a definition. Not just something you’ve made up based on your feelings.

Herd immunity is when Rt = 1, or 1 - 1/R0

It is the point when infections begin to decline due to acquired immunity.

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c...

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#169

Post by antonvs » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:14 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #85

arrosenberg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We outsourced manufacturing and those cost savings were certainly not illusory. Sure they are. The expertise and factories to build a lot of components are no longer in the US, which has a ton of knock-on effects in the economy - job loss, decline, etc. That's a hidden cost that offsets whatever cash savings were experienced on the front end.

Those are societal costs, not costs for the company making the decision to outsource or not. A company taking into account those societal costs while others do not will end up not being able to competitively price their products.

Good argument for government imposition of external costs via taxes, regulation etc.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#170

Post by antonvs » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #44

the-pigeon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. Why? A company hires an employee because they think they can make more profit than that employee costs them. My expenses have nothing to do with the equation except when the company wants to be cheap and figures out they can up their profit margin per employee by lowering salaries due to low competition for employees.

Your expenses also do not determine your value to the company. It's simple supply and demand. If you require $250/hr but a smart person in say Brasil will do the same work, to the same standards, for $100/hr, what is the rationale for the company to keep paying you? You might complain that the Brasilian is leaving money on the table but that's not in your control.

> You might complain that the Brasilian is leaving money on the table

He's not though. He's undercutting someone else to get the business. Race to the bottom is one of the most fun features of capitalism!