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On Smoking

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Re: On Smoking

#161

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

When I think about smoking and addiction, I think about how genetics and early childhood experiences actually allow us much less "free will" than we'd like to admit, especially in the US.

I picked up smoking in my late teens and early twenties. I tended to smoke socially, but still sometimes smoked by myself. Probably about 2 years into I thought "this is dumb", and just stopped. I never felt addicted. Quitting wasn't difficult for me at all - at the time I was pretty busy so I didn't even really miss it. Basically, I just really don't have an addictive personality or whatever other part of our genes causes people to get addicted. I could quit without a second thought, but many other people I know who started around the same time I did are either still smoking or have had a hell of a time trying to quit.

I bring this up because there are so many things that we think of are due to an excess or lack of will power (this view is especially prevalent in the US) - if you are overweight it's because you lack willpower, if you can't quit smoking you lack willpower, etc. etc. My point is that this is usually not true. I was able to quit smoking not because I had a ton of willpower, but because I didn't need it.

Re: On Smoking

#162

Post by vlovich123 »

kethinov wrote: post #151
muststopmyths wrote: post #145

The main things that keeps me from relapsing are that California makes it really hard to smoke in public and that none of my friends smoke. I occasionally relapse when with some specific friends from a point in my past. Luckily we live far away from each other so the meetings are rare. The one other reason I don't just pick smoking back up by myself is how nasty my clothes (no hair left any more !) smell after a ciga…

Weirdly, the thing I remember most about my time in California was how hard it was to avoid being constantly exposed to second-hand smoke anywhere I walked in the city. It really hit me when a friend visited from out of town and said something to me along the lines of, "You know, for how green-obsessed everyone here seems to be, it's truly remarkable how much smoke there is everywhere on the streets." Doubtless, this…

Which city is this? I’ve lived in major cities in NorCal and SoCal and can’t say that’s ever been my impression. Maybe later in the evening but usually the smokers self-segregate where they’re not around non-smokers.

Re: On Smoking

#163

Post by rkk3 »

defaultname wrote: post #131
rkk3 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol. No it is not magnitudes more addictive. Alcohol is extremely addictive, 1 in 12 Adults in the US has an alcohol problem [1] and withdrawal can literally kill you, unlike nicotine. 1. https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol

Your stats in absolutely no way counters my claim about addiction. Almost everyone who smokes to any degree becomes addicted and a regular user. Tens (100 million+) of millions of Americans drink occasionally with no addiction. Alcohol is a dangerous drug in every dimension, and I specifically said that. But their addiction profiles are dramatically different.

> Your stats in absolutely no way counters my claim about addiction.

There is no standardized addiction metric. The product, the dosage, age of user, and social habits matter significantly. Alcohol is extremely addictive and habit forming it kills 95,000 people a year in the US. I think it is disingenuous to dismiss it is as orders of magnitude less addictive than nicotine.

Most people can smoke a Cigar without becoming addicted to nicotine and a regular user. In the same way most people who are exposed to alcohol in the US don't get addicted.

Re: On Smoking

#164

Post by Rapzid »

Cederfjard wrote: post #27
version_five wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The article mentions becoming a new person - for me, it's different, I'm still a smoker, I just don't smoke anymore. I quit 10 years ago, and I won't start again, but I still want to smoke every day. I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction. You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The cliche of the addict tie…

I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve read, tobacco (especially cigarettes) are up there with the most addictive substances. Like, competing with cocaine and heroin. Obviously since the mind-altering effects are much more subtle, and it’s legal, it’s less disruptive (at least until it gets you sick).

Quitting smoking is harder than quitting cocaine IMHO.

Re: On Smoking

#165

Post by billykid24601 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #161

When I think about smoking and addiction, I think about how genetics and early childhood experiences actually allow us much less "free will" than we'd like to admit, especially in the US. I picked up smoking in my late teens and early twenties. I tended to smoke socially, but still sometimes smoked by myself. Probably about 2 years into I thought "this is dumb", and just stopped. I never felt addicted. Quitting wasn'…

What evidence do you have that this isn't true? It's not really a falsifiable position (since nature vs nurture is hard to show) and free will hard to measure.

To me, it simply seems more convenient for the audience to believe free will doesn't exist and addition is genetic.

Re: On Smoking

#166

Post by jorvi »

michaelmrose wrote: post #155
TchoBeer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Virtually everyone who smokes for any reasonable duration will become addicted and almost all do so enough to substantially effect their health and longevity whether they know it or not. This sounds right enough, but can you cite your sources for it?

I don't think that really needs a cite in 2021 but let me give it a go https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180109214939.h... > At least 61 per cent of people who try their first cigarette become, at least temporarily, daily smokers, suggests an analysis of survey data by Queen Mary University of London. This is actually stronger than the original statement. A substantial minority who even try smoking become…

When you stated 'virtually everyone', I assumed >90%. So no, 60% is not that. It is still a terrifyingly high percentage nonetheless.

Re: On Smoking

#167

Post by possibleworlds »

refulgentis wrote: post #101
awakeasleep wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That book is a gentle and thorough introduction to an idea that I, as a smoker, had been hiding from or confused about. Pretty amazing.

Can you tell me more? I'm familiar with the book but it didn't click with me, and I've had a strange feeling the past couple months I'm missing a really good mental model for where it comes from (tl;dr psychiatrist started talking about it after a year of hinting, but they thought I was a step ahead of where I actually am)

You need to read the whole book start to finish, and be open to its subtle reverse brainwashing. Personally the main eye openers were:

• Nicotine is scientifically proven to be incredibly physically addictive. • The way this physical addiction plays out is when you smoke a cigarette the effects wear off within half to 1 hr, and whether you are aware of it or not your brain starts begging for another hit. Side note: this explains how the tobacco industry settled on 20 / 25 cigarettes in a packet, ie 1 cigarette every 30 mins to 1 hr per day. • The stress / anxiety you think smoking is helping with are actually the resultant cravings caused by the last cigarette you smoked. Thus when you smoke you are in a constant state of withdrawal, it is like you are quitting all day every day. • You are not "quitting" or "giving up" anything, you are addict who is deciding to make a change and stop.

There is lots of other stuff in there, I don't think the above spoils it. Cumulatively the book gets you into the headspace of viewing the journey of stopping as a positive healing process, to the extent that you can actually enjoy the withdrawals and cravings. No joke, it is that eye opening and convincing.

Re: On Smoking

#168

Post by strken »

defaultname wrote: post #131
rkk3 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol. No it is not magnitudes more addictive. Alcohol is extremely addictive, 1 in 12 Adults in the US has an alcohol problem [1] and withdrawal can literally kill you, unlike nicotine. 1. https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol

Your stats in absolutely no way counters my claim about addiction. Almost everyone who smokes to any degree becomes addicted and a regular user. Tens (100 million+) of millions of Americans drink occasionally with no addiction. Alcohol is a dangerous drug in every dimension, and I specifically said that. But their addiction profiles are dramatically different.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim given the number of people I know who've had a first cigarette and not touched a second. Business Insider claims 76% of the population have smoked and 24% have become addicted, while 92% have consumed alcohol and 14% have become addicted[0]. That's nowhere near "almost everyone", it's 31%, and 15% for alcohol.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-addictive-substances...

Re: On Smoking

#169

Post by Baeocystin »

mavhc wrote: post #52
dimmke wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I quit smoking back in 2016 and I don’t think of myself as a smoker at all anymore. I sometimes have to remind myself I used to smoke.

Why do people start smoking? Surely they know it's addictive, expensive, and bad for you

I don't smoke, but my roommate does. After living in the same house for a couple of years, now, I think I understand the social aspect of why people start. A cigarette break is the perfect amount of time to sit down and have a little chat, and provides a reason to stop once it's done, too. Meet on the deck, catch up on each other's day, see you later, back to work. That kind of thing.

Re: On Smoking

#170

Post by amerkhalid »

murat131 wrote: post #3

The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes you feel good when the switch is on,…

I agree, I quit smoking more than 5-6 years ago. I still get strong cravings every once in a while, especially during bad weather. It is probably because I live in Texas now and I don't get enough opportunities to to deprogram smoking associations that I developed living upstate New York. Recent winter freeze made me just want to smoke every second.

I am still looking for something that can replace smoking, nothing really works. I have tried walking around the office, stretching, meditation, chewing gum, running up the stairs, eating snacks, drinking more coffee or tea, going outside for a short walks, etc. Smoking is really one activity where you can just take 5 minutes break from work every hour, stop thinking about work mentally, or keep thinking about the problem, totally normal to join a group of strangers smoking, or smoke by yourself, go outside to get away from crowd and smoke, smoke to get fresh air. Many times I was able to turn off my mind while smoking and when went back to work, I solved whatever I was stuck at.

This is one activity where I can totally turn off my mind and just be. I used to sit in my patio and watch storms, it was such a peaceful feeling. I don't know what activity can replace smoking. Any suggestion?

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