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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#161

Post by rudolfwinestock »

nguyenkien wrote: post #53
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the above, as much as some people want to mock America's involvement in Vietnam, one must note that The Domino Theory (used to justify that involvement) came true. Granted, the worst case scenario did not happen (Australia was spared communist takeover), but what actually happened was horrific, nonetheless. Laos and Cambodia fell to communism, in part thanks to communist forces from Vietnam. And anyone who…

Tell your neighbors come and talk with people from Mỹ Lai

Those responsible for what happened there received due process of law and were punished.

Communists, on the other hand, either suppress or celebrate their own atrocities.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#162

Post by refurb »

pessimizer wrote: post #49
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #12

[flagged]

> As you look at those photos and read the captions, keep in mind that the people who migrated from North Vietnam to South Vietnam outnumbered those in the opposite direction by at least a factor of two while that war lasted. You might also keep in mind the millions killed in the bombing of the north. Might make me want to go south, too.

This was in 1954 when the country was divided. What bombing are you talking about?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#163

Post by yongjik »

throw0101a wrote: post #26
yongjik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, during and after the Korean War, South Korea was under a corrupt dictator who killed several hundred thousand civilians for being communist. Its economy didn't improve until 60s, and it couldn't be really called a democratic country until mid-90s. So it's a bit of a stretch to claim that South Korea became today's South Korea because it survived the war in 1953. One could equally say that Vietnam's economic dev…

And today, in 2021, someone living in South Korea can criticize the government. Does someone in Vietnam have the same right/privilege/ability? Have fun if you're Christian: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Vietnam

Yes, I know, and South Koreans had to fight ~40 years after the Korean War to gain that right. That's the point I'm trying to make: a war is never about good guys beating bad guys, and when it ends nobody goes home as a victor and lives happily ever after.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#164

Post by mort1merp0 »

I have a friend who served as a tank gunner in Vietnam. Has was wounded and sent home. He ended up with 4 teeth left after his jaw has been shot.

He refused to accept that the US lost. No amount of reasoning would make him budge on that opinion. I dropped the subject as it was a risk to our friendship.

I understand where he is coming from though. To have lost so many friends in addition to his personal injury, it would mean to him that it was all for nothing if he were to acknowledge it as a loss.

[edit - a word]

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#165

Post by coliveira »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #74

There's a lot of people in the comments saying that Vietnam didn't really "win" the war. Their political and military objectives were ultimately successful, those of the US/South Vietnam were not. That's what a victory is. The cost of victory was very high, but it was a pretty unambiguous success for the Vietnamese.

Many people in the US never accepted that they were defeated. And the US media did a good job of never making this point (the defeat against Vietnam) clear. It is a version of the "lost cause" phenomenon of the US south.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#166

Post by xenophonf »

enraged_camel wrote: post #150
ska wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impressive how deep some of these psychological things run nearly 50 years on. It was such a blow to self-image that, let alone all the related domestic political fallout, people still have a hard time accepting what happened. The sheer amount of ink and celluloid spent trying to come to terms with this is awesome, and a little depressing.

I'm not a native-born American and don't feel like I have skin in that game. I just feel like in war, there may be victors, but there are no winners . Especially in the modern age, if you get in a war, all sides lose. Victory is just a matter of who manages to lose less.

In war there are no winners, only widows.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#167

Post by [deleted] »

emkoemko wrote: post #101
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent post noted, that development comes from having American jobs exported there (e.g., those Nike factories). Being a socialist society, the wealth disparities are far more stark than what we have in the West.

so USA is a socialist state? because it has a very large wealth disparities "The United States exhibits wider disparities of wealth between rich and poor than any other major developed nation." socialist society would be the other way around... unless you think Scandinavian countries are capitalists because they have lower wealth disparity

[deleted]

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#168

Post by nine_k »

ska wrote: post #83
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #74

There's a lot of people in the comments saying that Vietnam didn't really "win" the war. Their political and military objectives were ultimately successful, those of the US/South Vietnam were not. That's what a victory is. The cost of victory was very high, but it was a pretty unambiguous success for the Vietnamese.

It's impressive how deep some of these psychological things run nearly 50 years on. It was such a blow to self-image that, let alone all the related domestic political fallout, people still have a hard time accepting what happened. The sheer amount of ink and celluloid spent trying to come to terms with this is awesome, and a little depressing.

How many wars did the US win (as in "achieved the political goals") since WWII?

Korean war: half won, half lost.

Vietnam war: lost.

Grenada invasion: sort of won.

Gulf war 1991: I'd say won, despite Saddam staying in power.

Gulf war II: I'd say lost, despite Saddam deposition.

Afghanistan: lost, despite the killing of bin Laden.

Syria: can't tell yet.

It's a pretty depressing tally.

With that, I'd say that the US was on the winning side of a number of wars before that: WWII, WWI, Mexican war, Spanish war.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#169

Post by thereare5lights »

rudolfwinestock wrote: post #161
nguyenkien wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell your neighbors come and talk with people from Mỹ Lai

Those responsible for what happened there received due process of law and were punished. Communists, on the other hand, either suppress or celebrate their own atrocities.

> Those responsible for what happened there received due process of law and were punished.

LOL The ONLY person that received ANY punishment was Calley, and he was sentenced to life only to serve three years of house arrest.

"were punished" is a joke.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#170

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #96
ncfausti wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City for a couple of months (before the pandemic). Vietnam is probably my favorite country I have ever visited. I hope to come back soon. When I was in HCMC, I visited the The War Remnants Museum. It is on the same level as Auschwitz in my mind. It made me physically ill. I was so unbelievably ashamed for my country and it's awful leaders during that time. The more I've learned about…

Weird, because I grew up in the 80s and 90s and there was nothing but negative press about the Vietnam War. Consensus has been that it was a giant mistake for most of the past couple decades.

[deleted]
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