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U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#161

Post by gher-shyu3i »

zionic wrote: post #91
somethingwitty1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this kind of thought interesting. The government provides a ton of things. Do you use public roads or sidewalks? Do you live, work or shop in a structure that adheres to building codes? Do you have power? Do you have access to the internet? Do you enjoy food that doesn't kill you? So many of these things wouldn't be possible for the general population without government. It takes money to operate a gove…

>Do you use public roads or sidewalks? Yes, and that is paid for by my outrageous property/vehicle registration/gas taxes. Huge portions of our cities have roads in near 3rd-world conditions. The major arteries of every top-50 US city grind to a halt twice a day, and you have been conditioned to believe this is normal/acceptable. Our bridges, roads, and railways are falling apart. > Do you live, work or shop in a str…

I agree with your sentiment overall.

> How does 30-50% of your take home not impact your "overall well being"?

How do you respond to the claim that if income and other taxes were lower, then everything would go up in price to compensate for the extra liquidity in the market?

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#163

Post by zionic »

disabled wrote: post #146
zionic wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security is effectively a boomer ponzi scheme relying on infinite population growth to sustain itself. It falls apart the first time a generation realizes they can reap more than they sow by having/investing in fewer children, but the bill comes due. A just system would be something like "invest 15% of your income in XYZ approved categories, or pay a penalty tax on up to 15% of your income". This effectively m…

> Social security is effectively a boomer ponzi scheme relying on infinite population growth to sustain itself. It falls apart the first time a generation realizes they can reap more than they sow by having/investing in fewer children, but the bill comes due. Likewise, not true. I find your comment to be extremely offensive, too. I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous syst…

>By the way, I am off of disability now.

That's great to hear! The issue I take with your story is not that you got help, but that a government mandated retirement program should never have been retrofitted to provide socialized health care. It is an absolutely terrible design.

I'm not going to write a blog post about my theory for an optimal health care system architecture, but I suspect we would agree that a lot of things are wrong and need to be redesigned.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#164

Post by rsj_hn »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

It’s strange that you recognize new stable equilibriums emerging as unanticipated consequences of global capital liberalization but you advocate for trying to maintain a new unstable equilibrium instead of thinking about viable strategies that may work. As a piece of advice, if your solution requires 100% compliance by random nations in order for you to tax your own citizens/corporations, then your solution is squarely in the “hopes and dreams” bucket and I’d think at this point we had enough of that.

Instead, ask yourself why you can move funds so easily across borders and decide whether allowing these capital flows is a good idea or not. The inevitable cost of allowing them is tax arbitrage but it’s not close to the biggest cost - financial instability, trade deficits, a shrinking middle class and deindustrialization are much bigger costs, and are equally inevitable once you allow these cross border capital flows.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#166

Post by mrguyorama »

zionic wrote: post #117
jhedwards wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised to hear this sentiment, but honestly I think there's a huge amount that the government does that is invisible to most citizens. When I lived in China, I was shocked not by how controlled it was (which is what I expected given the western vision of China) but by how chaotic and uncontrolled it was compared to the US. Everything from food, health, and safety inspection, to the enforcement of traffic laws,…

>I'm surprised to hear this sentiment, but honestly I think there's a huge amount that the government does that is invisible to most citizens. It's invisible because it provides no true value to them. Right now you and I are paying for some NSA hacker to compromise American telecom networks, 13 carrier battle groups to put around the ocean doing nothing, literal armies of people in a hundred plus bases on literally e…

If the US government is taking $10k in taxes from you, you're making over $80k a year.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#167

Post by pseudo0 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #147
pseudo0 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just cut the corporate rate to 0 and raise the necessary funds through a VAT? No amount of fancy accounting tricks will eliminate companies' dependence on the US consumer market.

Because the Federal government doesn't have a sales tax? This system is easier than getting all 3 branches of the government to impose a VAT. And also, that doesn't solve the problem. If you're Apple - you have only pay taxes on your sales in the US. If you're a smaller company, you pay taxes on all your profits, plus a VAT on your sales in the US.

What's stopping the federal government from implementing a VAT? I realize there's a ton of legal and political inertia, but theoretically it seems like it would be an improvement.

In an ideal system everyone would charge a VAT rather than a corporate tax, resulting in a level playing field for foreign profits as well.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#168

Post by jbverschoor »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #153
jbverschoor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, why would T$ company want to pay 15% if it can also pay less than 2%?

because the proposals on the table are agreements that say access to the markets and banking systems of the countries in which you do business are predicated on a 15% minimum tax rate and without paying the taxes you do not get access to the markets or banking infra which are necessary to run and grow a mega cap company.

What they'll do is have separate entities for that.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#169

Post by disabled »

zionic wrote: post #163
disabled wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social security is effectively a boomer ponzi scheme relying on infinite population growth to sustain itself. It falls apart the first time a generation realizes they can reap more than they sow by having/investing in fewer children, but the bill comes due. Likewise, not true. I find your comment to be extremely offensive, too. I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous syst…

>By the way, I am off of disability now. That's great to hear! The issue I take with your story is not that you got help, but that a government mandated retirement program should never have been retrofitted to provide socialized health care. It is an absolutely terrible design. I'm not going to write a blog post about my theory for an optimal health care system architecture, but I suspect we would agree that a lot of…

Yeah, I agree with you on this. But, thank you for understanding. I really appreciate it. :-)

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#170

Post by dmautz »

zionic wrote: post #102
dmautz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although there is mismanagement, fraud, and abuse sometimes the alternative, not having that service, is worse. There is a balance usually.

> not having that service, is worse. Is it really? We could eliminate entire sectors of the federal government and your average person would have no clue. Why do we need 18 intelligence agencies? Why do we need 13 carrier battle groups? What, exactly, do our 100+ overseas bases do for the average tax payer? None of it makes sense in a supposedly representative government where those who slave away and pay for it get…

This is why I used the word sometimes. Obviously the whole military industrial complex is the worst example.

As for the philosophical argument that they take my money by force, I just don't get it. This is the best way we have found to have a civilized society so far. Going far in either direction communism or anarchy is not a good solution. You have to also consider reality when arguing policy.

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