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Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

blog.scaleway.com

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Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#161

Post by retzkek »

mirthflat83 wrote: post #34
Glench wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the official Chia answer to this: https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1393988621921701889

> For some odd reason the 'Chia burns out hard drives!' is getting repeated as the fashionable fud. No one is claiming that Chia is burning hard drives. He is intentionally being misleading. Chia absolutely destroys consumer SSDs.

> Chia absolutely destroys consumer SSDs.

If they are used to produce many orders of magnitude more plots than could fit on them. His point is you don't need SSDs to plot, and can reasonably make them directly on the spinning HDD on which you'll store them. I know, because I'm doing this. I make one plot in about 10 hours on the 7200rpm commodity drive in my home media server. It may take me longer to fill up my space than it would with an SSD, but compared to the amount of time in the future I'll be able to farm the plots it doesn't really matter. Cranking out plots as fast as possible probably only helped for the first week or two.

People are burning out SSDs since they're buying into the arms race and trying to get/stay ahead of the netspace growth, hoping for some "easy" XCH, but that's a choice they're making, using poor (or more likely no) ROI calculations and outdated information.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#162

Post by zerd »

vasco wrote: post #108
jefftk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> proof-of-carbon-emission-reductions That one is fun! First, I credibly claim to have plans to release ridiculous quantities of CO2, and then you negotiate with me to convince me not to. Then we can split the coins.

This is being done right now in the Amazon without blockchain. First you start logging a lot more trees. Then the world is outraged at how many trees you cut, and you begrundgingly go to the negotiation table to figure out the carbon subsidies you're going to get in exchange for not cutting those trees. But wouldn't you know, estimates of how many trees you're able to not cut per year are based on how many trees you…

Sounds like the classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket on a global scale.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#163

Post by jareklupinski »

cbdumas wrote: post #86

Perhaps the "paperclip maximizer" doomsday scenario was right in was right in its broad strokes but just wrong about the agents involved? They were worried about a super-competent AI that burns resources producing low-utility widgets. In fact we have created an system (a combination of societal incentive structures and technological tools) that burns resources producing low-utility pseudo-random numbers.

turns out people were the best "paperclip maximizers" all along

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#164

Post by zepto »

vkou wrote: post #111
zepto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - that’s pretty much how it works. If you own and can defend a jurisdiction where you can do that, other people will likely pay or trade things with you to stop.

A cheaper way to deal with you is to embargo/tariff your exports, until you come back to the negotiating table, hat in hand.

Seems like there are some pretty large blocs who won’t embargo you these days.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#165

Post by dheera »

zepto wrote: post #78
dheera wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set up a coin such that every time it goes up, some amount of reserve is sold, and 100% of profits donated to carbon reduction projects. Give away free electric cars. Plant trees. Whatever. Then hype up the coin. Make people bid it up endlessly just like they do other coins. Post lots of #moon #hodl crap on Twitter. Get the flock of sheep moving. Sell hype, use the proceeds for CO2 reduction.

According to Bitcoiners Bitcoin is green, so you you could use the proceeds to buy Bitcoin. https://bitcoinisgreen.org/

I mean, personally, I do own some cryptocurrency right now, if it moons enough in the near future I would be very likely to use the proceeds to switch to an electric vehicle.

If it moons even higher I could move to a more energy-efficient apartment with double-paned glass and all.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#166

Post by jasonlaramburu »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #26

Somebody needs to invent a coin that works on proof-of-carbon-emission-reductions, or proof-of-global-poverty-reduction and do some real good for the world.

How do you cheaply and effectively verify that the real world work (sequestering carbon, fighting poverty) actually happened?

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#167

Post by ricopags »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #26

Somebody needs to invent a coin that works on proof-of-carbon-emission-reductions, or proof-of-global-poverty-reduction and do some real good for the world.

Not sure what the "Rule 34" for crypto is, but:

https://www.regen.network/

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#168

Post by 22c »

hi5eyes wrote: post #154
hellow0rldz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitCoin mining is also a lottery. I could stumble on a good hash using my own CPU. But the odds are in favour of the farms with ASICs.

btc can only be mined on asics

Simply not true.

https://gizmodo.com/mining-bitcoin-with-pencil-and-paper-164...

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#169

Post by 22c »

marcusverus wrote: post #146
ksec wrote: post #33

Some people think Chia is so much better because of it uses SSD / Storage rather than GPU. I think this could be far worse. Not everyone needs a GPGPU, but everyone need NAND and SSD. And it already causes price hike for SSD we will soon see something similar to chip shortage. The DRAM Fab which could be quickly retooled to NAND will be part of this equation as well. This is not good.

> And it already causes price hike for SSD we will soon see something similar to chip shortage. Nah. The expected ROI on a given TiB of storage is halved with each doubling of Netspace[0][1]. The current return is ~$1.50/TiB/Day. As the expected return declines, farming CHIA will become less attractive than other crypto 'investment' opportunities, and the whales will turn their attention elsewhere. I'm guessing that…

>The current return is ~$1.50/TiB/Day.

I'm bearish on Chia, but I can see why it's attractive at this price point. I thought the profitability was much worse, but I did the calculations myself and it looks like around ~1.30/TiB/Day.

At the $20/TiB price point for HDDs that seems like you'd be in the money after ~16 days (excluding plotting costs and farming power usage). The big problem is the lottery, which could be smoothed out by pool farming.

Yes, the rewards are getting worse by the day, so it's hard to predict where things will be at in 16 days time, but again, pool farming should theoretically smooth that out a lot.

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