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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#161

Post by brightball »

phillipcarter wrote: post #121
brightball wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't though. The key to basic income is that it provides a baseline and then you can go to work to earn more money. With high unemployment pay, you lose that money the moment you go get a job so it creates a disincentive to work.

> so it creates a disincentive to work This framing can make it come off as though the wages were fair to begin with. The consensus seems to be that they were never fair. And people in the US are largely tired of the government giving handouts to businesses over people. It's time for those who reaped disproportional benefits over the past 40 years to eat some costs instead.

> This framing can make it come off as though the wages were fair to begin with.

This framing passes the buck for inflation from the government onto businesses that have no control over it whatsoever.

When the money you have buys less and less, the wages suddenly become less and less "fair" without the employer doing anything differently. Who's to say that their business has increased enough to support the higher wage?

This is, IMO, why basic income is critical because it puts the cost of dealing with inflation directly back on the government itself, rather than the small businesses that are constantly framed as paying "unfair" wages.

If the taxes to support it come from the people at the top who've reaped disproportionate benefits...GREAT. But the small businesses at the bottom struggling to keep their doors open are not the enemy here but they will absolutely be the ones that suffer the most from wage-based legislation that they can't afford.

And let's not forget that the moment such legislation passes, it just encourages more automation or exporting of jobs to other countries where a fraction of the original wage is somehow "fair".

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#162

Post by paulpauper »

gruez wrote: post #134
throwaway1777 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it’s not really a good option. Maybe a high schooler should be focusing on school.

>Maybe a high schooler should be focusing on school. How do you feel about college students working part time during their studies?

only if they need the $ and there is no other option . the ROI from a high GPA and good grad school, makes the extra $ from a crappy part-time job insignificant.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#163

Post by jolux »

gruez wrote: post #150
jolux wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day Well thankfully we don't have to imagine, people have researched this: https://livingwage.mit.edu/ . According to these data, the living wage across the US in 2019 was $16.54: https://livingwage.mit.edu/articles/61-new-living-wage-data-... . So it's not at all inconceivable that the federal minimum is a poverty wage, in fact it almost certainly is.

But that has nothing to do with GP's claim? GP was talking about your "net pay is below zero", meaning that the job itself pays negative. eg. you get paid $50/day but spent $55/day to earn it. Your comment seems to be about the minimum wage not being able to sustain a given living standard, eg. you get paid $50/day but you need to spend $55/day to survive.

I read their comment differently than you did, but even if I hadn't I don't quite understand your objection. By definition if you're spending $55/day to survive, you're spending $55/day to earn your pay, if nothing more. The situation you describe is not sustainable either. Please clarify.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#164

Post by inetknght »

gruez wrote: post #113
mywittyname wrote: post #20

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

>I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 * 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.

> Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.*

Wow can you be any more out of touch? Your comment is offensively innaccurate.

$58/day = $1740 for 30 days

Unhealthy cheap carbs for a single person... $200/month (chicken, beans, rice, milk, cheese, bread)

Shitphone with basically no internet for a single person... $40/month (who needs internet anyway)

Fuel for a single person... $200/month (assume 2 tanks / week)

Rent for a single person... $1400/month far (+fuel)

Health insurance because you have two or three shit part-time jobs: $400/mo

Vehicle insurance on an old vehicle: $300/mo

It's hard to imagine someone who's so out of touch with reality that they think they can get away with claiming minimum wage is higher than $7.25 in high cost of living areas. In Houston, Texas the minimum wage is ... $7.25/hr. Cost of living here isn't approachable to minimum wage.

This doesn't even start to pay for taxes, retirement investments, medical emergencies, vacations, legal disputes, education costs, or heaven forbid having family.

What numbers are you using for your costs?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#165

Post by paulpauper »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #97
leetcrew wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's pretty common for the second shift to start right around the time highschool gets out. or if it doesn't, the manager might be flexible. dinner rush doesn't usually start until 6:00 or so. there's also the weekend. obviously highschoolers are not filling 100% of entry-level food service jobs, but they make up a pretty good chunk of these workers along with some college kids. it's a good option for someone who has…

Except it’s not really a good option. Maybe a high schooler should be focusing on school.

Finally someone said it. High schoolers toiling away in dead-end jobs is not necessarily 'good'. They can be learning skills that generate a higher long-term ROI.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#166

Post by rednerrus »

claudiulodro wrote: post #52
unethical_ban wrote: post #21

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

> Is it because the high-schoolers who would normally do that aren't looking for jobs due to pandemic? The concept that entry-level food service is mostly staffed by high-schoolers who don't really "need" the money is the weirdest trope. Basically every restaurant is open during school hours. Who is handling the lunch rush?

The kids who just graduated and don't have other prospects.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#167

Post by boublepop »

honksillet wrote: post #56

There are no such things as “jobs americans won’t do”. It’s just you have to compensate people accordingly. With this failing stealth UBI experiment that we are currently engaged in, people aren’t willing to work when many of them are getting near 100% the same income not to work. The rest of us are being crushed by inflation.

A system where people get the same to work as not to work is not Universal Basic Income, UBI. Such a system is guaranteed basic income. There’s a huge difference.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#168

Post by dmwallin »

honksillet wrote: post #56

There are no such things as “jobs americans won’t do”. It’s just you have to compensate people accordingly. With this failing stealth UBI experiment that we are currently engaged in, people aren’t willing to work when many of them are getting near 100% the same income not to work. The rest of us are being crushed by inflation.

It's unfortunately nowhere near a stealth UBI experiment and really just a classic welfare trap, in the vein of so many other government programs. There are many bad incentives in our unemployment system and it was clearly never designed to be a delivery method for long term stimulus.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#169

Post by kokanator »

paulpauper wrote: post #137
kokanator wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revolution is NOT the answer. Think a bit harder on the problem than to simply cry revolution. Swaths of people die, families are destroyed, the economy is destroyed, the nation becomes vulnerable ( if you still have a nation ). You will have to deal with the problems you created before you ever get the opportunity to work on what you were originally revolting about.

What about the American Revolution (not that this would work, but some revolutions do work)

I didn't say they don't work. However, most do fail. My point was they come with an extreme cost and in this case you may never get to the resolution you are seeking. Alternative means are much much more likely to be successful.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#170

Post by ok_coo »

the_only_law wrote: post #23
Clubber wrote: post #5

I think the "life is short," phenomenon that recently occurred to everybody due to COVID is also playing a part. People are thinking, something along the lines of, "I could have died and my gift of life has mostly consisted of working for this shithole company for the last 5 years." Employers might want to consider hiring more people in smaller shifts. Maybe an extra person and put everyone on 3-4 day shifts rather t…

Ngl it’s got me wondering if I should make some life shattering changes myself.

I moved back to rural Midwest and be with and around family and it's made me appreciate them a lot more.

I've thought about why I sacrificed this, by moving away to a big city, just to get an ok paying job with healthcare.

So, I wonder if more people are re-thinking their life if they moved during COVID to be near friends/family during this time.

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