The Gates to Hell: Apple’s Notarizing

Post by saagarjha » Sat, May 01, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

Klonoar wrote: post #135

lunixbochs wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming it doesn't work well with nested bundle signing. As per my other thread it also seems to be picky about which subdirectories it signs, and there are lots of weird paths (LaunchDaemons, XPCServices, LoginItems, etc) you can put stuff in that needs signed. Not to mention if you put anything needing a sig in Resources.

Hmmm, well I'm willing to believe it then, yeah (although I definitely have a nested bundle setup in a project where --deep works fine... odd). This is good to know though, and hopefully this exchange helps someone in the future too (actually, this would make for a good blog post - this kind of nuance is lost in most of the docs/existing posts).

Post by hda2 » Sat, May 01, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

jolux wrote: post #66

mmastrac wrote: post #7

Notarization has been a nightmare of a solution to a problem that isn't effective. You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. This is just Apple's overreach extended to the desktop. Excessive control that makes developer's lives hell while adding barely…

>You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. Apple do this too, it's called XProtect: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/protecting-against-... They also have a built-in malware remediation tool, which is presumably what was used when they killed t…

Post by barrkel » Sat, May 01, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

jolux wrote: post #66

mmastrac wrote: post #7

Notarization has been a nightmare of a solution to a problem that isn't effective. You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. This is just Apple's overreach extended to the desktop. Excessive control that makes developer's lives hell while adding barely…

>You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. Apple do this too, it's called XProtect: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/protecting-against-... They also have a built-in malware remediation tool, which is presumably what was used when they killed t…

Post by userbinator » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

jolux wrote: post #66

mmastrac wrote: post #7

Notarization has been a nightmare of a solution to a problem that isn't effective. You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. This is just Apple's overreach extended to the desktop. Excessive control that makes developer's lives hell while adding barely…

>You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. Apple do this too, it's called XProtect: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/protecting-against-... They also have a built-in malware remediation tool, which is presumably what was used when they killed t…

Post by jolux » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

hda2 wrote: post #163

jolux wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can get practically as much security by pushing malware signatures to the client without the massive privacy overreach of having Apple archive each and every bit of code that you generate for distribution. Apple do this too, it's called XProtect: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/protecting-against-... They also have a built-in malware remediation tool, which is presumably what was used when they killed t…

> Notarization is clearly part of a defense in depth strategy for macOS. The issues being called out here is that it comes at too high of a cost to both develops and users compared to the benefits it provides.