Live data from Hacker News

Facebook deliberately made people sad. This ought to be the final straw (2012)

theguardian.com

161–162 of 162 posts

Re: Facebook deliberately made people sad. This ought to be the final straw (2012)

#161
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emotional manipulation was scare quoted for a reason. Consent to "rank posts based on unknown criteria to maximize relevance" will incidentally, at least on some occasions, cause "emotional manipulation" in the consumers of the feed. So again, consent is already provided for the possibility of emotional manipulation. What's the difference between accidental and scientifically valid emotional manipulation such that ex…

> Consent to "rank posts based on unknown criteria to maximize relevance" will incidentally, at least on some occasions, cause "emotional manipulation" in the consumers of the feed. Why is that automatically the case and how would the user know that? > So again, consent is already provided for the possibility of emotional manipulation. Giving consent for one specific form of emotional manipulation does not give blank…

>Why is that automatically the case and how would the user know that?

Of course it is automatically the case. If a post can have emotional valence, but emotional valence isn't controlled for, then occasionally some sequence of posts will be more negative than average just by chance. This is accidental emotional manipulation.

>Giving consent for one specific form of emotional manipulation does not give blanket consent to all forms - especially not to deliberate acts.

But it's not all forms, its a specific type of maniupation: posts in your feed with more or less than average positive or negative emotional valence. This is just a consequence of having a feed at all.

>One is accidental, the other is deliberate.

You have a knack for restating the facts of the case and then (figuratively) going QED. It's a little frustrating. Again, why does intentional manipulation require more consent than accidental manipulation when the process by which it happens (alterations to the feed) already has blanket consent?

>Also, that's not just my opinion. Just read the other guardian article linked from this one and the statements linked there:

I'm not interested in more opinions, I'm interested in arguments.

EDIT: One of your own links references a post that details the circumstances in which the "informed consent" requirement can be waived:

"According to Prof. Fiske’s now-uncertain report of her conversation with the authors, by contrast, the local IRB approved the study “on the grounds that Facebook apparently manipulates people’s News Feeds all the time.” This fact actually is relevant to a proper application of the Common Rule to the study.

Here’s how. Section 46.116(d) of the regulations provides:

An IRB may approve a consent procedure which does not include, or which alters, some or all of the elements of informed consent set forth in this section, or waive the requirements to obtain informed consent provided the IRB finds and documents that:

The research involves no more than minimal risk to the subjects;

The waiver or alteration will not adversely affect the rights and welfare of the subjects;

The research could not practicably be carried out without the waiver or alteration; and

Whenever appropriate, the subjects will be provided with additional pertinent information after participation.

The Common Rule defines “minimal risk” to mean “that the probability and magnitude of harm or discomfort anticipated in the research are not greater in and of themselves than those ordinarily encountered in daily life . . . .” The IRB might plausibly have decided that since the subjects’ environments, like those of all Facebook users, are constantly being manipulated by Facebook, the study’s risks were no greater than what the subjects experience in daily life as regular Facebook users, and so the study posed no more than “minimal risk” to them."

More discussion on: https://www.thefacultylounge.org/2014/06/how-an-irb-could-ha...

Re: Facebook deliberately made people sad. This ought to be the final straw (2012)

#162
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When a film makes you sad you are aware of what's going on" is your claim, but I don't see how that applies to something like, say, Terminator 2, whose entire goal, according to Cameron, was "making the audience cry for the Terminator," yet was not promoted as a sad film. It's hard to come up with a principled difference here.

The Terminator 2 audience knows the film is an authored fictional story. It can make someone cry when they didn’t expect it, but they understand that the filmmakers are intentionally trying to provoke certain emotions. If you can’t see the myriad principled differences between that situation, and logging onto Facebook expecting to see an unfiltered selection of posts, I really can’t believe you are trying hard.

If you'll scroll up a bit you'll see this subthread begins when I propose a thought experiment where the "natural" order yields the same results and ask if it's unethical, and people tell me that yes, they think it is. But now you're specifically calling attention to an unmet expectation of "unfiltered" posts (I'd question whether anyone has such an expectation, although the specifics of the curation are not advertised). I think this gets away from what I was talking about in the first place.
Post reply on HN