Live data from Hacker News

Embrace the Grind

jacobian.org

161–170 of 320 posts

Re: Embrace the Grind

#161
This is really what it takes to make a quality product. It's not only being able to focus long enough to get the job done, but also having co-workers that also value quality and focus. I get so annoyed with co-workers who don't value quality. Everything has to be done yesterday, quick and dirty, with little to no care involved. And for what? To move on to upper management's other random idea that probably isn't great?

I desperately wish there was more of an emphasis on the simplicity of quality work in America. That doesn't mean spend years and years making something no one wants. That means making a product that is simple, effective, and elegant. Unfortunately, simplicity is actually harder to figure out than complexity. Adding is easier than subtracting.

I think of software as art. And sometimes it takes an excruciating amount of time and effort to pay attention to the details, stomp out the bugs, and create that beautiful work of art. There are plenty of companies that do value quality, focus, and attention to detail. But far too often, it's about making a quick buck rather than thinking long term about making software that will last years on end.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#162

> For example, I once joined a team maintaining a system that was drowning in bugs. There were something like two thousand open bug reports. Nothing was tagged, categorized, or prioritized. The team couldn’t agree on which issues to tackle > I spent almost three weeks in that room, and emerged with every bug report reviewed, tagged, categorized, and prioritized. Honestly, this is one of those traps a team can fall in…

Truth! Deep work and focus is difficult, expensive with continuous meetings and notifications. So the OP is extra right! Cutting through the noise looks like magic now.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The movie thing is a good example. I remind my kids that some of these movies cost $1,000,000/minute to make. That might be what they make in their lifetime, so it is about that many hours of work per minute (a life’s work).

When you put it that way, that's obscenely expensive. Maybe we should be steering kids toward entertainment that we can create as well as consume because it's not absurdly expensive.

It does get kind of ironic if you realize that streaming is getting more and more popular. I guess that's a much more cost effective form of entertainment?

Re: Embrace the Grind

#164

> For example, I once joined a team maintaining a system that was drowning in bugs. There were something like two thousand open bug reports. Nothing was tagged, categorized, or prioritized. The team couldn’t agree on which issues to tackle > I spent almost three weeks in that room, and emerged with every bug report reviewed, tagged, categorized, and prioritized. Honestly, this is one of those traps a team can fall in…

I can both see the value in that approach and, having run across things like this situation before, I can also see an unaddressed question in this post (already brought up by the replies, but worth repeating): how is that scenario not a fundamental failure of management, or some kind of dysfunctional organizational dynamic, to not prevent that kind of thing from happening in the first place?

Bug reports aren't exactly sui generis, they don't just mysteriously appear.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#165
post #157
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bug left alone long enough grows from an child bug to an adult bug. You're still caring, feeding, and maintaining that bug the entire time.

I think the oldest bug I've raised that's still open is this Webkit one from 2008 [1]. It still gets plaintive comments from various people every few years. A few more and it'll be going off to college. [1] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22261

> We are fixing in Blink (c2103)

Re: Embrace the Grind

#166

When I joined a mentoring program targeted at recent college grads, I expected to be teaching things like interview prep, resume writing, negotiation skills, communication skills, and how to deliver results in a workplace. For about half of the mentees, that's roughly true. However, for the other half much of my mentoring ends up being about time management, following through on commitments, and putting in the effort…

This resonates with me deeply. I can barely get work done most of the time. My "solution" is to leave a company before people get too frustrated with me. Changing companies frequently nets me better pay and more promotions than my harder-working peers, but I haven't felt fulfilled by work in a long time.

What do you tell these mentees? What would you tell someone a bit further along in their career who still has the same problems?

Please pm me if you are open to a chat.

titanomachy.hn [at] pm.me

Re: Embrace the Grind

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which problem exactly? Not being able to sit down and code for more than 2 hours?

It could be that he isn't productive. I have this problem, where if I sit and code for too long I end up just wasting time debugging or writing useless code. Maybe I'm just another uneducated recent college grad, but I really don't see how you can work 7+ hours a day and actually be productive. Doing different kinds of work or taking frequent breaks, possibly. But not just sitting and staring at your computer for 7 h…

It might be sustainable for some people, but not for me... the only time I put in those kind of hours of focused effort is in a FAANG interview loop, and that takes so much out of me that I lie down and stare at the ceiling until bedtime :)

Re: Embrace the Grind

#168
What he describes isn't grind, it's taking care of a big mess.

Grind is management/company/etc. that says you have to work weekends and late all the time because there's more money to be made that way.

Grind is doing that epic job of organizing and triaging the bugs, then your company doesn't give you a bonus and you're expected to do it all the time.

Doing the right thing is what he did.

I just hope his company did the right thing back.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which problem exactly? Not being able to sit down and code for more than 2 hours?

It could be that he isn't productive. I have this problem, where if I sit and code for too long I end up just wasting time debugging or writing useless code. Maybe I'm just another uneducated recent college grad, but I really don't see how you can work 7+ hours a day and actually be productive. Doing different kinds of work or taking frequent breaks, possibly. But not just sitting and staring at your computer for 7 h…

> but I really don't see how you can work 7+ hours a day and actually be productive. Doing different kinds of work or taking frequent breaks, possibly. But not just sitting and staring at your computer for 7 hours

Ironically the only way I can be productive for that long is to do the opposite of what you're describing. Focus on a single problem or piece of work, take minimal breaks and sit at my computer for most of the day.

I've only ever done this for bursts of time before though (And never for a company, too many distractions), because how can you be spending so much time building without thinking? It has to be a large, well defined problem. But that doesn't really exist unless you're just copying something or you've already put in the work to define it.

In saying that, I don't think 2 hours is really long enough to make much progress on something. That would only leave me with about an hour of productive time.

Btw, if you're a recent college grad I'm probably around the same age as you.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#170
Read it anyway and agree that someone taking care of a task that requires technical understanding, but is in itself repetitive and time consuming is often a critical part of some business process. Many times I've witnessed such issues grow over time, slowly and surely reaching the stage mentioned in the piece.

Every time, people up the chain have been aware but haven't acted, when usually the solution is (unavoidably) making the time and space available for a capable person to do it, and having then be incentivised/rewarded enough to proceed.

Off topic: I was hoping based on the title for an unusually technical skateboarding article.

Post reply on HN