34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#161

Post by the_local_host » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

mulmen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

It seems like you're anticipating a divergence (or at least communications gap) between the generally-in-office and generally-remote sets of employees.

Have you considered that it might be the remote employees that are more productive?

The benefits you've stated for in-office work are that you will be more likely to hit the gym, get low-cost healthy food, interact with random non-teammates, and meet in-person, none of which are slam-dunks for the company bottom line.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#162

Post by tmpz22 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #126

User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

My spouse is a workforce analyst. She schedules work packages for a large government agency. She's responsible for the workloads of about 150 people. All have been working from home for a full year, and yes, they are quite capable of doing it. However, overall productivity is down 30%. Since they have good data, she can clearly see which people are close to their normal productivity even when working from home, and w…

Does the data set have a control group? A group of workers doing identical tasks during a global pandemic ripe with political and social strife but working entirely within an office with their peers?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#163

Post by grahamburger » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #26

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

I'm in the sort of weird position of having worked at 3 different companies throughout the pandemic, all fully remote, and then also now having left the working world entirely to freelance. The best remote work experience that I had so far was at the last company I worked for, where I never even met any of my co-workers in person. The reason it worked well is that we had a very strong and socially re-enforced culture that worked something like this:

If you're working, you're available on chat (discord). If you're not available (like taking lunch or a break) set your status so everyone knows.

If you need to talk to someone, don't hesitate to ask.

If you send more than 2-3 chat messages as part of a discussion, just pull everyone in to a video room immediately and talk it through. (Discord makes this really easy.)

At first I was a little uneasy about being pulled in to video calls all the time, but I came to really appreciate it. I honestly think this worked better than "just turning your swivel chair" because our team was big enough that even in an office not everyone would be a swivel away.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#164

Post by geraneum » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #26

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

If you’re sitting in my proximity and swivel in your chair and interrupt my work every time something’s not clear to you or you need a hand, I will politely ask you to stop and gather all your questions and send them in a message or email so I can look at them when I find a gap.

I can’t (as a human) switch context like a CPU. It’s not just about a couple of minutes. It’s about the time that it takes me to get back into the context and in the right place where I was in, prior to the interruption.

I believe this is not a good example for the point you’re trying to make.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#165

Post by thinkharderdev » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #26

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

Wait, so it's rude to ring someone because they may be occupied or busy but it's not rude to interrupt them in person? At least with a phone call I can silence my ringer when I'm heads down or at least ignore a call if I'd rather stay focused.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#166

Post by mym1990 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #70

necheffa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a similar vain of logic, 34% is a non-trivial portion. Why should a non-trivial portion be forced to work in an office just because another non-trivial portion wants to?

They shouldn't, but they may have to act on their preference and find a company who is going to be primarily or entirely remote.

This. No one is forcing anyone to work in office. The job market is...market and it provides you with certain benefits for certain services and expectations in return, and for many companies one of those expectations is coming into the office. If the market moves towards more remote work, then remote work will gain more leverage in negotiations.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#167

Post by tezzer » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #148

tezzer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer. I can do my job 100% remotely. I can't wait to get back to the office. I like in-person collaboration, and I really like having separation between my work life and my home life. This year has been torture.

Is a bigger house/condo with an office an option? If you can work remotely, why live (I’m assuming) in a city that is expensive because it was built around an in-person existence?

I don't think I want to pay for a bigger house; I already pay to be close to work. I've never had more than a 15 minute commute, and that has occasionally been an expensive policy!

I don't like co-opting my living space for work. It clutters things physically and mentally.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#168

Post by thrower123 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #57

MattGaiser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

Just asking this as a talking point. Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually blocking me. So only 1 person is able to work.

Yes, because it trains you to unblock yourself, rather than stop and come running to me every time your wheels slip.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#169

Post by citizenkeen » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

mulmen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

I think a lot of people who enjoy remote are going to have a rude wake-up when offices go hybrid. Before Covid, half my meetings weren't scheduled. They just happened in a hallway. If I could grab a third person who I thought might have an opinion, we'd walk over to their office. But I'm not going to go find a Zoom setup unless I have to have their opinion. Which means we'll make the decision without them. Not out of malice, but because they're not there.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#170

Post by anyfoo » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

Igelau wrote: post #153

samr71 wrote: post #4

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

I'm losing my mind. I can't believe I actually used to think it would be preferable.

It's super interesting, because after more than a year now, I'm barely at the "sometimes I guess it would be nice to see my coworkers and be able to talk about them in person". But, emphasis on "sometimes".