In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click • Hacker News Board

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#161

Post by ckolkey » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

samvher wrote: post #154

gonehome wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I search Google now I mostly get spam. “Product vs. Product” -> list of spam websites that just show them side by side with ads. “Product Review” -> same as above, spam. “Product referral code” -> sites with spam and no codes. Interesting web content is in Reddit (and youtube), Google exists as a tool to search Reddit since the “new” Reddit site is awful. Programming questions are mostly stack overflow, but occa…

I haven't heard of Axios before - how would you characterize it? Looking at the website I can't quite tell if it's an aggregator or how they generate content, and if there is any particular leaning to what they host.

They write their own content. It's a site who's focus is short, concise stories.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#162

Post by tablespoon » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #69

BitwiseFool wrote: post #15

Google results have gotten dramatically worse over this last decade. Google now seems to fixate on the most common terms in my query and returns the most generic results for my geographic area. And, it seems like quotes and the old google-fu techniques are just ignored or are no longer functional. There are a whole host of factors behind this, but I'm certain that the switch to Natural Language Processing / Semantic…

It drives me crazy how Google never fails to remove the most unique and yet most important words of my search term. It basically does this 99% of the time now.

> It drives me crazy how Google never fails to remove the most unique and yet most important words of my search term. It basically does this 99% of the time now.

Which is ironic, because one of Google's original innovations was to make a space an AND connector instead of OR (which its competitors used to maximize result counts). Back then, they understood that fewer, more specific results were better.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#163

Post by cruano » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #112

prepend wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed this too and now suffix any query that I think Wikipedia is best at with “wiki.” This is faster for me that opening Wikipedia and searching.

I add “wiki” too, but I made it a keyword search command to use Wikipedia’s search and cut out the middleman altogether.

You can prefix your search with "!w" on DuckDuckGo, bangs[1] are a neat feature and what actually made me switch

[1] https://duckduckgo.com/bang

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#164

Post by diegocg » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

gxx wrote: post #93

BitwiseFool wrote: post #15

Google results have gotten dramatically worse over this last decade. Google now seems to fixate on the most common terms in my query and returns the most generic results for my geographic area. And, it seems like quotes and the old google-fu techniques are just ignored or are no longer functional. There are a whole host of factors behind this, but I'm certain that the switch to Natural Language Processing / Semantic…

For me Google "verbatim" is the best way to get focussed results although it's too bad it doesn't allow date ranges. Bing search with appropriate use of guotes, + and - operators and date ranges usually beats non-verbatim Google search, and it can sometimes be better than Google verbatim.

The verbatim mode is exactly what most people here are missing. But, for some reason, it's something that can't be configured - you need to set it in every new search. Three freaking clicks.

I don't understand what goes on corporations. I guess power users aren't a target demographic anymore.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#165

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #129

Arnt wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically worse... if that's true, then I wonder how good they were a decade ago. Because every search I've done today produced the result I wanted on the first page of the results, above the fold. I can't say I've really counted how many days that's true. I can't even say that I really remember what searches I did yesterday or the day before. But if I'm not totally weird and google searches were dramatically bett…

> Dramatically worse... if that's true, then I wonder how good they were a decade ago. Oh, I forget some people doesn't know why Google enjoy their current position: Back before 2007 they completely blew competition out of the water: If something was accessible on the Internet and wasn't behind a noindex spell, Google would find it. Compared to other search engines that both then and now work more like Google does to…

somewhere in between there they messed up the + operator that used to mean "make sure this term is included"

IIRC this one was driven by Google Plus marketing wanting "+" to mean "Go to this page on Google Plus" so they could do some co-marketing thing with +Pepsi.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#166

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #103

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only Google itself knows the real answer to this question This alone should be setting off alarm bells for everyone, the government should be raiding Google offices to find the necessary facts to answer these questions. Google operates as the de facto front page of the Internet, the default starting point for the vast majority of the public, and they're incredibly dodgy about the real facts about how they use that…

> the government should be raiding Google offices I can't get behind this. Suggesting that corporations be raided by the government is not a good idea. To my knowledge, Google has not denied any information requests they've received (or been subpoenaed for), and actively work with law enforcement in circumstances required of them. If we get to a point where they stand in contempt of court ordered information requests…

> To my knowledge, Google has not denied any information requests they've received

Your knowledge stops very short in this area then. Google is utilizing the entire playbook to delay and obscure information from antitrust regulators. For example, Google almost always responds to requests for response from regulators on the last legally permissible day to do so, often after requesting multiple extensions. Here's an article about the third extension they got to respond to one of the EU charges: https://phys.org/news/2015-08-google-extension-eu-case.html (Google responded to this one four days before the deadline of the third extension, https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-responds-to-european-uni...)

In another example, Google was to respond by April of 2016. After getting extensions out to the end of September and then October... Google finally responded on November 3rd: https://www.digitaltrends.com/business/google-antitrust-eu-r...

Each of these months-delayed responses of course, can be summarized down to "Google doesn't believe Google is anticompetitive" in a blog post I could've written in an afternoon.

They managed to drag out the EU cases years longer than they should've taken through these sorts of games, and the US cases are now just getting started.

This was three days ago: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-doj-accuses-google-dragging...

Google has taken states to court to try and block them from sharing information necessary to investigate the case: https://www.axios.com/google-texas-paxton-antitrust-microsof...

And have straight up refused to turn over emails and texts from corporate executives relevant to the case: https://nypost.com/2020/02/21/google-stonewalling-ags-over-e...

Also, bear in mind, Google and Facebook agreed to cooperate in fighting antitrust investigations against them, to avoid one providing information on the other's side of the deal: https://news.yahoo.com/google-facebook-agreed-team-against-0...

Essentially what's happening here is Google knows it's in the wrong, and it knows it's making more money than it will ever be forced to give up in fines and penalties, so they want to drag all of these processes out as long as possible.

The public would be best served by raiding the offices, seizing the information, and stopping all illegal operations from continuing while the investigation is completed, so that Google executives have adequate incentive to respond quickly to restore business.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#167

Post by adav » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

caoilte wrote: post #46

sharkweek wrote: post #38

Many moons ago, I put a ton of work into a (now defunct) content site that provided specific information in a small vertical. Each post took hours, but I enjoyed writing the articles, and the revenue from the ads was enough to enjoy a little extra cash every month (we're talking just about enough to cover a car payment, for context). Google decided they liked a lot of the content and started providing it in their kno…

"The problem of course arises when content creators stop making the content for Google to scrape and index disappear, what then?" communist revolution?

Sounds like the plot of Atlas Shrugged.

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#168

Post by diegocg » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

Jerry2 wrote: post #76

Anyone have any opinions on the state of image search? What do you use? I find Google Image search, which I used to love, filled with absolute garbage now. 90% of links are to Pinterest which greets you with usual overlays, signup modals etc. I use DDG's image search because I find Google's search unusable. Also, Yandex image search is probably the best reverse image search on the market. It's crazy how much better i…

Bing image search is much better too

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#169

Post by dreamer7 » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #15

Google results have gotten dramatically worse over this last decade. Google now seems to fixate on the most common terms in my query and returns the most generic results for my geographic area. And, it seems like quotes and the old google-fu techniques are just ignored or are no longer functional. There are a whole host of factors behind this, but I'm certain that the switch to Natural Language Processing / Semantic…

I have noticed an eerily accurate prediction of my search term though. Several times, when I hit a bug and attempt to learn more about it, Google makes precise auto-complete suggestions

Re: In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click

#170

Post by Der_Einzige » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #15

Google results have gotten dramatically worse over this last decade. Google now seems to fixate on the most common terms in my query and returns the most generic results for my geographic area. And, it seems like quotes and the old google-fu techniques are just ignored or are no longer functional. There are a whole host of factors behind this, but I'm certain that the switch to Natural Language Processing / Semantic…

You are 100% correct about the switch to Semantic Search and dense vectors being one of the main reasons. BERT shouldn't be anywhere near my search results.