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Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

reuters.com

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Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#161

Post by Nursie »

Zenst wrote: post #149
Nursie wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of friends of mine have spent a couple of days pretty whacked by it. Tiredness and a few headaches mostly. Make sure to get plenty of water and rest :)

Get them to look at https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/ and report their side effects. That's the UK system for reporting side effects in medications of any form. Also weekly report of the covid-19 vaccine side effects here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid... Had my jab 3 hours ago, and enjoying a nice honey dew pomelo as I type thinking, fruit just don't get any better than this.

Interesting, will bring that up next time someone says something. Ta.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#162

Post by hef19898 »

signal11 wrote: post #93
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I think the contract between AZ and Oxford University actually restricts them from making a profit for a period of N months/years. So they are only technically allowed to adjust the price to take into account the different operational costs depending on the manufacturing site.

I believe AZ have said they will not profit off the vaccine until the pandemic ends. The interesting thing is that they may get to decide when that happens.[1] [1] https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-puts-a-time-...

From top of my head, not before June / July or when the WHO declares the end of the pandemic.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#163

Post by throwaway4good »

giantandroids wrote: post #8

You do have to wonder if some of this is politically driven. Germany are losing hundreds of life's a day, while in the meantime the UK has administrated 23 million doses (not sure the ratio of those that were AstraZeneca) and not recorded a single fatality or adverse reaction and are seeing infection rates / deaths drop. I can understand caution under normal circumstances, but nothing is normal right now.

It could also be driven by money.

The alternative Pzifer jab is 10-20 times as expensive.

That is a lot money, some of which may find its way to work the media and the decision makers.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#164

Post by fab1an »

semigroupoid wrote: post #138
chrisseaton wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you botch acquiring something being developed and made in own country?

Because it is not made in Germany. Pfizer is responsible for producing it and their plants are primarily in the US.

I don't think that's the case, the US isn't exporting any vaccines afaik and the EU doses are primarily produced in Europe.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#165

Post by s_dev »

verytrivial wrote: post #144

As far as I understand it, the EU member states are not generally short on doses, more on distribution and other regulatory issues. If they pause AZ, they can use something else which is already being manufactured right now, and likely within the EU, quelle surprise. I would not be surprised if this is simply a political and economic snub from the EU, one of very many the UK can expect over the coming decades. The UK…

>As far as I understand it, the EU member states are not generally short on doses

Let me correct that understanding. The EU is absolutely short on doses. AZ has only delivered 10% of what they promised. There is no doubt if the EU had a greater supply the vaccine rollout would be going much better.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#166

Post by TheCoelacanth »

xgb84j wrote: post #100
giantandroids wrote: post #8

You do have to wonder if some of this is politically driven. Germany are losing hundreds of life's a day, while in the meantime the UK has administrated 23 million doses (not sure the ratio of those that were AstraZeneca) and not recorded a single fatality or adverse reaction and are seeing infection rates / deaths drop. I can understand caution under normal circumstances, but nothing is normal right now.

The ethical issue is that the people dying from COVID and the people who might have an adverse reaction from the vaccination are not the same people. If mostly old people die from COVID but the adverse reaction of the vaccine is independent of age, then for very young people the risk of an adverse reaction of the vaccination might outweigh the risk of permanent damage from COVID.

But if these reactions are a result of the vaccine, it has to be at an extremely low rate of people vaccinated. Even the small rate of death from COVID for young people is going to be higher than that risk.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#167

Post by rsynnott »

verytrivial wrote: post #144

As far as I understand it, the EU member states are not generally short on doses, more on distribution and other regulatory issues. If they pause AZ, they can use something else which is already being manufactured right now, and likely within the EU, quelle surprise. I would not be surprised if this is simply a political and economic snub from the EU, one of very many the UK can expect over the coming decades. The UK…

You understand it incorrectly. EU vaccination is largely constrained by doses. The exception is AZ, which in some countries has already seen people declining it, but AZ is currently a tiny portion of the EU's available vaccines due to AZ's failure to deliver. This will indeed delay things more if it isn't sorted out quickly (but possibly not THAT much more, because AZ is so behind on deliveries).

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#168

Post by detaro »

verytrivial wrote: post #144

As far as I understand it, the EU member states are not generally short on doses, more on distribution and other regulatory issues. If they pause AZ, they can use something else which is already being manufactured right now, and likely within the EU, quelle surprise. I would not be surprised if this is simply a political and economic snub from the EU, one of very many the UK can expect over the coming decades. The UK…

The last German news before this was "available vaccine slots need to be reduced due to missing deliveries". While the distribution certainly had and has its issues, using the limited available stock is less of a difficulty than handling the fact that the available stock is limited.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#169

Post by fasteddie31003 »

xgb84j wrote: post #110
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #9

The pandemic has made me believe we need to be greater consiquentalists in our polices. It's pretty obvious that on the whole the AstraZeneca vax will save more people than are killed from the side effects. We don't not live in a 0 risk existence.

Yes, but those are different people that might be killed, which makes it an ethical dilemma. Depending on the type of adverse reaction, it might be safer for young people to not get vaccinated at all or with a different vaccine. (For example if the adverse reaction affects mostly young people, while COVID affects mostly older people.)

No one is forcing you to get the vax. I would have personally taken the Moderna vax months before the FDA approved it because I was following the research closely.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#170

Post by lastofthemojito »

drcode wrote: post #18
giantandroids wrote: post #8

You do have to wonder if some of this is politically driven. Germany are losing hundreds of life's a day, while in the meantime the UK has administrated 23 million doses (not sure the ratio of those that were AstraZeneca) and not recorded a single fatality or adverse reaction and are seeing infection rates / deaths drop. I can understand caution under normal circumstances, but nothing is normal right now.

A problem with bureaucracies is that they often care deeply if people die from an action they are responsible for, but are fine if there are massive deaths due to inaction.

Feels similar to government IT risk aversion that I've seen. Folks are afraid to approve a new piece of software, or a new version, or a hotfix or whatever, because what if it goes awry and causes problems? But little weight seems to be put on "what if we keep running the same version we've been running for years and now that there's a known vulnerability, someone exploits it?".
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