Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#161

Post by tompazourek » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

Girls the same age are more mature than boys. They develop differently. Maybe that's a factor?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#162

Post by hcurtiss » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

I realize that this isn't terribly PC, but isn't it possible that testosterone is negatively correlated with attention span and compliance and positively correlated with risk taking? You certainly see it in other species. Without any value judgment at all, I would expect this would manifest in different outcomes in academic settings versus competitive markets. That is, it seems likely to me that some of this is due to innate differences between men and women.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#163

Post by ganzuul » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #66

spaniard89277 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Babies. Really, being a mother is what skews most stats about women on money issues. There has been policymaking about this in a bunch of european countries, and if they are released from financial constrains (handouts, public housing, whatever) they seem to double down on it. Let's face it, working, for most people, is something you do out of necessity. Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviou…

> Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviour of men about work, when they have a socially aceptable and now economical venue to avoid it. Baby raising is quite important work. I would argue that raising the next generation of workers, taxpayer, customers and pension fund contributors is the most important work of all.

..Just have to say that these are terrible reasons to have children.

You produce a small version of yourself and you are emotionally satisfied that something you did will mean something in the end. If you get to raise the child yourself then you get to perpetuate your mental life as well.

Still selfish reasons, but at least much better than producing... laborers.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#164

Post by Alex3917 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

thepete2 wrote: post #53

What's probably missing from the article is the giant caveat of almost all educational research, which is: *as measured by grades*

"A grade can be regarded only as an inadequate report of an inaccurate judgment by a biased and variable judge of the extent to which a student has attained an undefined level of mastery of an unknown proportion of an indefinite amount of material."

In reality, boys may well be learning more than girls in school, maybe even substantially more.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#165

Post by wizzwizz4 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

0xy wrote: post #40

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define “naturally”.

Meaning on average, most women list towards them. There are large differences between genders in terms of career motivations, interests etc. Proven in many studies repeatedly.

> There are large differences between genders in terms of career motivations, interests etc.

I think this would be the case for the hypothetical “party if you're a man, standing outside in the rain if you're a woman” job, too. How do you know you're describing something about the people you're measuring, as opposed to the people around them?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#166

Post by Dirlewanger » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

0xy wrote: post #7

endisneigh wrote: post #2

How is it possible that girls perform better academically (in 2015) yet are under represented in the top tier of jobs? Either women have no interest in money, academic skills have no bearing in getting high paying jobs, or discrimination is more prevalent then you’d think. I suppose all three could be true.

Because women naturally list towards jobs that pay less, and under conditions that pay less (part time, contract work, etc). How many deep sea welders are women? Less than 0.1%. How many oil rig workers are women? Less than 1%. Good deep sea welders earn over $300k.

Only on HN will facts like these get downvoted. Why is this community so allergic to discussing this topic in an unbiased manner?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#167

Post by bb611 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

In the US, there's a significant gender gap in administration, especially above the school leader level. Also, larger schools (middle, high) are more likely to be run by men than woman.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#168

Post by aviraldg » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #143

aviraldg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules and grading are different. In school, the rules that students are rewarded for following are "softer" and harder to justify directly. eg. You must submit a project with a cover with beautifully handwritten title of this specific size, or you lose marks (This is real guidance that was provided for my school and college projects.) At work, while these kind of rules exist, it's typically okay to break them, an…

None of this explains why women are capable of following these rules and men are not. Are you saying men are biologically predisposed to not follow such simple rules?

I was answering your question about why this difference exists. I don't know about the reason, but if I had to guess I'd say it's not biology, but culture/upbringing. I think girls are culturally expected to follow rules, and boys encouraged to break them.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#169

Post by esja » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

omot wrote: post #119

The amount of insecurity in the thread is a little embarrassing gentlemen. Let's be open minded and entertain the possibility that women are indeed more capable and that societal constructs drag down their career opportunities.

Imagine reading that men perform better in their careers, and saying to women:

"The amount of insecurity in the thread is a little embarrassing ladies. Let's be open minded and entertain the possibility that men are indeed more capable and that societal constructs drag down their educational opportunities."

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#170

Post by 13415 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #42

endisneigh wrote: post #2

How is it possible that girls perform better academically (in 2015) yet are under represented in the top tier of jobs? Either women have no interest in money, academic skills have no bearing in getting high paying jobs, or discrimination is more prevalent then you’d think. I suppose all three could be true.

In many subfields of biology, women have achieved numerical parity at all levels (IE, there are roughly 50% women in entry and leadership positions). It seems like some highly quantitative fields which have traditionally been male-dominated (CS, physics) may very well be practicing some sort of entry discrimination. It's unclear what the full set of contributing factors are.

Maybe linguistics vs. philosophy is a good example. They are not too different from each other and I've studied both of them. My impression has always been that male vs. female linguistics professors were roughly 50:50, whereas at least in the past there were way more male than female philosophy professors. It seems to be getting better now in philosophy, though.

However, I could be totally wrong about this, as I've never bothered to check the figures.