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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#161

Switzerland has an awesome electoral system [1]. Instead of being ruled by a president or a prime minister who can be polarising, divisive, or selective, Switzerland has an Executive Council. The 7 member Executive Council is composed of the top 7 candidates from each election. The chairperson of the executive council rotates each year, so that the top 4 vote winners each get a turn at being chairperson. This means t…

What happens when a council member leaves office unexpectedly, i.e. dies or resigns? Does it kick an election for everyone or just that one seat?

Good question. I'm not sure exactly how the successor is chosen, but this section from Wikipedia indicates just the one member is replaced:

> Until 1999, the Constitution mandated that no canton could have more than one representative on the Federal Council. Until 1987, the place of origin was used to determine which canton a Federal Councilor was from. After 1987, the place of residence (or, for councilors who were previously members of the Federal Assembly or of a Canton's legislative or executive body, the canton from which they were elected) became the determinant factor. Nothing prevented candidates from moving to politically expedient cantons, though, and the rule was abandoned in 1999. Since then, the Constitution has mandated an equitable distribution of seats among the cantons and language regions of the country, without setting concrete quotas. Whenever a member resigns, he/she is generally replaced by someone who is not only from the same party, but also the same language region. In 2006, however, Joseph Deiss, a French Swiss, resigned and was succeeded by Doris Leuthard, a German-speaking Swiss, and in 2016, Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, German-speaking, was succeeded by Guy Parmelin, a French Swiss.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#162
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they keep getting awarded contracts despite their continued poor delivery. I really don't understand how their terrible track record never seems to impact their ability to win more business. I can only assume corruption, but I have no evidence of this.

Their ability to win business is based on their expertise at writing responses to RFPs in a successful way, not in their ability to deliver. Also, they do have a few successful projects, to some standard of success, which they point to in the RFP responses as a "successful" track record. Often the ability to point to an almost perfectly analogous project and writing the responses in the "correct" way is all it takes.

"writing responses to RFPs in a successful way" really means "successfully identifying decision-makers at top levels and brib-- 'charm' them into compliance", often even "dictating how RFPs should be written so that they will be the only ones who know exactly how to reply to them in the only acceptable way".

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#163
post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

Which is why the opponents, backed by a non-partisan alliance of representatives, will bring forward not one but two proposals to the houses. If they get a majority vote, the federal council will have to try to make it into a law.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#164
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden we have a company running the ID system and that works fine. The company is coowned by all the large banks afaik. I was really surprised at how far behind Switzerland is compared to Scandinavia when it comes to digitalisation. Being able to handle my life hassle free online instead of going to physical places (like post office, banks, gov office) is liberating. I also get all my bills digitally and all my r…

I think pride and patriotism means you’re overstating your case here. Indeed as you say, a subgroup of the largest Swedish private banks own the ID system in Sweden - for profit, and without any serious democratic oversight. Edit: I forgot to add that the system allows these private banks to see into almost every aspect of a person’s life: where they shop, where they are , who shares their household and so on. Almost…

I guess I only shop with stores that use Kivra.

BankID doesn't store any information, and I have no problem that the stores I'm a member in store my shipping history.

I think you are overstating the scale of the surveillance. I don't think the different entities share data with each other.

Edit: try live in a country like Switzerland once you have gotten use to all interaction being online. It's horrible.

Edit2: actually other stores provide digital receipts without Kivra. You just have to be a member.

Edit3: This has nothing to do with patriotism, there are many things that I don't like about Sweden. But the fact that we have taken digitalisation seriously since the 90s is something I think is great.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#165
post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

Definitely why I voted against it. When I first heard about it I was all for it - until I realized that the plan was to let private companies handle it. Complete no go, glad it got rejected.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banning of minarets is a data point against this liberty.

I’m not for that ban, but I think that bit of direct democratic building code gets overly dramatized. Things like this serve to moderate the political landscape. If people feel like they stay in control throughout rising immigration from cultures they deem problematic, there is less of a tendency towards extremism. And so far I haven’t seen any extreme counter reaction in Muslim communities either. The soup is cooked…

The direct consequences for Muslims are hardly the problem here – only about 30 women in Switzerland (we know about) even wear a burka/niqab and quite a few of them are Swiss converts. Back when we banned minarets, we had like three (!) of them in the whole country. But we had ads like these [0] all over the country for months again and if that doesn't give you the most profound chills, I don't know. It's textbook right wing scapegoatism and I'm pretty sure Muslims can feel the very real consequences of that kind of propaganda.

[0] https://verhuellungsverbot.ch/downloads/

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#167
post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

Belgium has been doing digital identities for years now, we had our first identity cards with chip and digital signature I think 15 years ago? I frequently use it to sign documents and login to some government stuff. So if Belgium, which didn't have a government 3 out of the last 10 years, can do it, surely Switzerland can do it too.

It's not an issue of whether it's technically feasible do it, but whether it's feasible to do it with appropriate safeguards that protect privacy and anonymity online while authenticating in a targetted way to those end points that need it.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#168
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the largely the case with scandinavian countries in general. I've been seriously considering leaving the USA permanently because I'm having a difficult time reconciling my morals and ideals with the taxes I pay. Ballots and debates aren't enough. I'd rather vote with my taxes and my feet, and start helping a county I believe in.

I think you're possibly confusing Switzerland with Sweden there...

Though, as a Swede, I would love to have Swiss-style democracy...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#169
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the eID gives the government control over its people... if anything I feel it’s the opposite - one gains the freedom to manage their identity service directly and save some time because it just works across all government/bank/insurance services.

Indeed. The current American system based on bits of paper you have to remember about, or insecure ID numbers used as identification (SSN) just causes a lot of pain, imo. Having a central ID for each citizen at birth, and then a way to prove that you match that ID would make so many services much more secure and convenient. (Obtaining DL, getting loans, bank accounts, name changes, tax, etc) I agree there should be s…

This only gives more power to government to harass people whom they don't like and who are poor minorities.

> having a central ID for each citizen at birth, and then a way to prove that you match that ID

This seems a trivial and no-brainer and yet you will be surprised how many Americans will be simply denied this sort of service after birth. Racist law makers would put severe restrictions on people they dont like. If they don't get this ID soon after birth they don't get anything. They will be illegals in their own country.

Entire song and dance around illegal immigration, e-verify and all that crap was needless if there was no concept of SSN.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#170
post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

> We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist.

... I mean, as a French citizen who kind of wants my government to keep existing, I also agree with the statement you quote?

Our government's public-facing IT systems have gotten better over the last few years, but my default expectations for any new projects would still be for them to mess it up.

Of course, the problem is I'd also expect the average contractor to mess it up in very similar ways, for similar reasons.

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