Female Founder Secrets: Fertility • Hacker News Board

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#161

Post by kmclean » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

Interestingly, single, childless women are also the happiest population demographic.

(https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-h...)

I don't disagree homemaking should be less stigmatized, but the real problem is American startup culture that expects this kind of around-the-clock all-in hustle mentality. The vast majority of businesses are actually just small firms with a few people that make a decent living. That's the lifestyle that should be celebrated and desirable. There's no reason running a business can't be compatible with having a family, we just need to re-define what it looks like to run a company. The focus should be on sustainability and balance, not growth at any cost.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#162

Post by dcow » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #147

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

> Why do women have to emulate men to be valuable? Why do we assume that those behaviors are inherently a man's? Women that have a drive to become business leaders do so for personal reasons and not to emulate anyone (except perhaps personal heroes who could happen to be women). You later speak about a wish to become a stay-at-home father. Is this emulating women or is it a wish based on activities that are not inher…

My point is not that these behaviors are inherently those of a man. It’s that success should be defined much more broadly than “things men traditionally do”. I think we are in agreement on that I may have not done the best job at capturing the point.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#163

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

rcpt wrote: post #129

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

In other nations where the state provides good childcare women have historically entered the workforce just fine. It's the US (and especially California) that drains everything possible from young families.

[deleted]

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#164

Post by nightowl_games » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

The down stream effects of our system could be that the successful, educated, intelligent women and men dont have children, and the more aggressive, more risk taking, less educated among us have many children.

This has the potential to massively harm our society in the long term.

We need to ascribe virtue to having children. We need to ascribe an extremely high amount of virtue to being a good parent.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#165

Post by vmception » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #3

I empathize with how hard it is for a female founder in particular and for a woman in general when it comes to mixing children with a career. That said the advice to freeze your eggs (ie work now, live later) rubs me the wrong way. I wish we could live in a society where people would not have to work themselves to death and were able to... you know... enjoy life

> That said the advice to freeze your eggs (ie work now, live later) rubs me the wrong way.

That seems to be based on a lot of assumptions. I consider working a fulfilling job to be living. Whereas raising children seems to be the fulfilling... life role.. to you? I don't view them as separate delineated things.

I think freezing eggs should become cheaper, more viable, and covered by insurance, and there are a couple ways to improve the process.

A lot of times I find dating 28-33 year old women to be predictably annoying because many stigmatize options like freezing eggs while still rushing to check the boxes on various rites of passage, as if freezing eggs is a form of defeat. Whereas older women have just gotten over it, already done it, or something else. And younger women haven't gotten around to "wondering where this is going". My experience, corroborated by some other men. I wonder if that contributes to Leo's age limit. I don't have experience dating men, so I wouldn't know if they do something similar at certain age ranges.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#166

Post by wwww4alll » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

drakonka wrote: post #119

wwww4alll wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women are biologically determined to have children with a man that can provide security and resources. It’s natural drive and need on the same level as breathing, eating, drinking. Men are biologically driven to have many children, from many different women, as their circumstances and resource ps allow. This is the human condition and anyone born alive accepted the EULA agreement, by being born alive.

Do you deny the existence of men and women who choose not to have children?

Please go out and meet people, men, women, in real life.

People go through phases. Little children think they are dinosaurs and have pretend tea parties.

I’ve known several women that said they didn’t ever want kids, while dating loser college boyfriends.

However, when the same women met and married successful, richer, older men, the women popped out babies left and right.

People say things all the time to rationalize their circumstances.

Men and women will make babies. It’s biological drive. It doesn’t matter what people believe or think. It’s how species continue and survive.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#167

Post by david-gpu » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #151

austincheney wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, why must the family homemaker necessarily be a woman? If in a male/female relationship the female is the more ambitious one prioritize the male as the primary care giver. Either way raising children still takes time, energy, and focus that could otherwise pile into something else. While there are differences in general approaches males and females take in raising children I don't think there is any research…

1. I didn't say it needs to be a women, I am highlighting that there’s a stigma against women performing that role today. 2. The problem is exactly with the characterization (that you made) of the “more ambitious” route being the career route. Why do we assume having a career requires more ambition than wanting to raise a healthy family?

> I am highlighting that there’s a stigma against women performing that role today

That is true, but there's an even bigger stigma against men who want to perform that role. Sure, you may find a very career-driven spouse who would be happy with you taking the role of the caregiver, but that is not a common occurrence. The man who does not provide substantial income to the family will find it much harder to find a partner than a woman in the same situation. Talking about heterosexual couples here, of course.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#168

Post by u678u » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

In Europe its pretty normal to have one child. It seems only in America people aspire to have 2, 3, even 4 kids.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#169

Post by MajorBee » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #19

rantwasp wrote: post #3

I empathize with how hard it is for a female founder in particular and for a woman in general when it comes to mixing children with a career. That said the advice to freeze your eggs (ie work now, live later) rubs me the wrong way. I wish we could live in a society where people would not have to work themselves to death and were able to... you know... enjoy life

> wish we could live in a society where people would not have to work themselves to death and were able to... you know... enjoy life While I do agree, this is where I draw a distinction between "job" and "career." A job is something you do to make money. A career is an end in itself. Balancing a career and parenthood is incredibly hard because they're both large time commitments. Despite what the 90's told women (tho…

If I may add to your distinction between "job" and "career" -- a career can be thought of what a person ultimately decides their economic contribution to society over the course of their life is going to be. While full-time parenting is usually not counted as a career, raising the next generation certainly seems like a very critical economic contribution (among others). To this end, there are movements to recognize this contribution by paying the stay-at-home parent (usually the mother) some form of "salary" to not only fully legitimize the role of parenthood in a society that values contributions by money earned, but also to make them more independent and therefore confident by not making them fully financially dependent upon the earning spouse.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#170

Post by sir_bearington » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #137

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

Actually, why must the family homemaker necessarily be a woman? If in a male/female relationship the female is the more ambitious one prioritize the male as the primary care giver. Either way raising children still takes time, energy, and focus that could otherwise pile into something else. While there are differences in general approaches males and females take in raising children I don't think there is any research…

It doesn't. But only 20% of mothers want to work fill time as compared to 70% of fathers. 30% of mothers want to not work at all, and 50% want to work part time.

I don't think the argument here is that women make better parents than men. Rather, we live in a free society where men and women make their own choices. And women and men have substantially different work preferences after becoming a parent.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/...