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TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#161

Post by npteljes »

swagonomixxx wrote: post #61
DangerousPie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly Google should have just boycotted Europe for a week and seen how well everyone handles not having gmail, google, or anything. I think the EU would have loved that. There are perfectly viable alternatives to pretty much everything that Google offers, some of which created in Europe. They just never gain any traction because it's convenient to just use Google for everything. I still use Gmail and Google Cale…

Out of curiosity, what are the European alternatives to GSuite?

ONLYOFFICE and NextCloud can do a whole bunch of cloud things, both for personal and business use, although I guess you could mention several things that are great in GSuite and not offered at all by these two.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#162

Post by jariel »

dkersten wrote: post #149
jariel wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, the legislators didn't want the pop-ups to be annoying. They didn't even require pop-ups." This is the point: the legislators were exceedingly naive, and created a bad outcome. 'National Geographic' is not evil, they are struggling and most of these sites are not giant entities with well-staffed experts. It's a good example of poorly designed legislation. "This is part of their game, make the experience miserabl…

> 'National Geographic' is not evil, they are struggling and most of these sites are not giant entities with well-staffed experts. There's a very simple solution: respect my privacy and don't store or sell data about me. If you only use cookies necessary for running the site, then you don't need to do anything. If you must track me, then do as sibling commenter said. If you store privacy-invading data about me, then…

This position is a somewhat naive because it does not following through with the consequences of the actions: you missed the part where there is no National Geographic - and you don't get any content - in the most ideal scenarios from the user's perspective.

The business model of the internet is advertising, as of today, that requires cookies, which by the way, don't represent material harm.

Also - you're specific view is in no way representative of the population at large. 'Most people' would rather remain completely private at the same time, they would forgo at least some degree of privacy for the option.

Given the choice of a:

a) No content b) Constant popups c) The previous imperfect norm but where people can get their content without hassle ...

They would chose option 'c' - hands down.

The effect of legislation is to create popup hassles for individuals that they never read - and to provide no real material improvement for people.

What they could have don instead.

i) Orchestrated cookie-free advertising exchanges and solutions

ii) Created privacy 'categories' and relevant rules and symbols, like movie ratings - and a symbol could be placed o prominently on the site so consumers have a quick and easy mechanism to know where they stand.

iii) worked with other nations and groups to arrive at consistent standards. With Canada, Australia, Japan on board, it might be very well possible to convince a Biden-lend USA to buy into some kind of standard.

What we have now is not pragmatic and it's ill conceived.

This would all go away if users were will to fork over 5 cents to read an article.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#163

Post by johnisgood »

j1elo wrote: post #92

Say there is this new law that forbids to smoke inside public places (read: restaurants, bars, pubs). For the sake of the metaphor, say these places received some benefit from tobacco companies from having people smoke, so naturally they react to this law by remembering in the most annoying ways how you cannot smoke inside because of those pesky lawmakers (and not because people really voted in favor of less smoking…

I had no idea what you were talking about until I read other comments about annoying modals and whatnot. I do not get these with uBlock Origin, and uMatrix installed. You should install uBlock Origin at least. If I disable it, I get that modal people are talking about.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#164

Post by Symbiote »

dheera wrote: post #151
newswasboring wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best are ones which just give reject all cookies option (of course they still use strictly functional cookies). And I always thought that is how it should be, both extremes should be equally easy to choose.

Most of those "strictly functional" cookies aren't strictly functional either. I block ALL cookies and many of those sites with "strictly functional" cookies still function, which means that those cookies aren't necessary.

Strictly functional cookies don't mean the site doesn't work without them.

It does mean e.g. clicking "°F" every time on a weather site, because you're an American living in Europe. A strictly functional cookie could remember that choice.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#165

Post by forgotmypw17 »

sva_ wrote: post #158
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #98

I recently spoke with an older brother of a young man, about 13, who is heavily addicted to TikTok. His brother told me that he has been skipping school to stay on his phone, and that when his phone is taken away, he flies into a screaming rage, and runs down the street barefoot.

I don't know, but don't you think perhaps there's a reason other than being addicted to an app that makes said younger brother want to be hooked to his phone all day, avoiding things like school? Perhaps it's just an avenue to escape something.

Sure, I think it is possible. I do not know the situation very well. It is not the first such case I know, however.

My friend's young 4-5-year-old, for example, the child of two model parents, has had similar behavior. Her screen time is very limited, but once there is a smartphone or a tablet in sight, she's inconsolable.

She does not use anything like TikTok, just watches some parent-curated videos.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#166

Post by kermire »

sva_ wrote: post #158
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #98

I recently spoke with an older brother of a young man, about 13, who is heavily addicted to TikTok. His brother told me that he has been skipping school to stay on his phone, and that when his phone is taken away, he flies into a screaming rage, and runs down the street barefoot.

I don't know, but don't you think perhaps there's a reason other than being addicted to an app that makes said younger brother want to be hooked to his phone all day, avoiding things like school? Perhaps it's just an avenue to escape something.

I really like this comment. Very rarely do people understand that there are reasons for people seeking escape. All addictions seem to be a way to deal with some issue they are facing. If the root cause is fixed, the problem should be solved. People would rather blame technology rather than understand human beings. It's an easier route to take.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#168

Post by xg15 »

j1elo wrote: post #92

Say there is this new law that forbids to smoke inside public places (read: restaurants, bars, pubs). For the sake of the metaphor, say these places received some benefit from tobacco companies from having people smoke, so naturally they react to this law by remembering in the most annoying ways how you cannot smoke inside because of those pesky lawmakers (and not because people really voted in favor of less smoking…

> But give it time, and years later most if not all restaurants and customers have accepted the new situation, offering an overall better experience for everybody involved. And I think that's what will eventually happen with the cookie law now that the GDPR has made more obvious and annoying the whole process.

I really hope that, but right now, I'm not optimistic. With smoking and restaurants, even if the tobacco industry was involved to some extent, it was not singlehandedly funding the whole restaurant business. The main business model of restaurants - people pay to have great food, drinks and a good time in general - is independent of smoking. In contrast, a large part of the modern web seems to be built on ads and tracking as its very foundation.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#169

Post by piva00 »

bzb6 wrote: post #94
DangerousPie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly Google should have just boycotted Europe for a week and seen how well everyone handles not having gmail, google, or anything. I think the EU would have loved that. There are perfectly viable alternatives to pretty much everything that Google offers, some of which created in Europe. They just never gain any traction because it's convenient to just use Google for everything. I still use Gmail and Google Cale…

It seems you don’t see the value in having one integrated provider for everything. Other people clearly do. Also if there were GOOD European alternatives to those google service people would use them, but there simply aren’t. Low salaries and terrible regulations are to blame.

Do you understand the difference between US vs EU markets? As in: demographics issues, language issues, product targeting issues?

There are no good European alternatives due to a conflation of these issues, not just because of regulations, that's such a naive (or willingly ignorant) take on a complex issue.

How would European tech companies start and compete against FAANG right now? Given that the EU market is quite fragmented between demographics and language? How can an European tech company avoid being acqui-hired or acqui-killed by one of the current massive tech giants?

If you don't develop your arguments of what kind of regulation holds EU tech companies back and posit that against the issues I mentioned then I can't really trust you understand the problem and differences between markets that give benefits to the US economy, as it always had, it's a massive and more homogeneous economy than the EU.

Let's compare US vs China tech as that seems more of an appropriate comparison from the baseline.

Re: TikTok hit with consumer law breaches complaints across Europe

#170

Post by xg15 »

kermire wrote: post #166
sva_ wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but don't you think perhaps there's a reason other than being addicted to an app that makes said younger brother want to be hooked to his phone all day, avoiding things like school? Perhaps it's just an avenue to escape something.

I really like this comment. Very rarely do people understand that there are reasons for people seeking escape. All addictions seem to be a way to deal with some issue they are facing. If the root cause is fixed, the problem should be solved. People would rather blame technology rather than understand human beings. It's an easier route to take.

Might be, but nevertheless technology makes those problems worse and is optimised to exploit individuals who are already vulnerable.

As another example, many F2P mobile games have the concept of "whales", individual players who invest absolutely unwarranted amounts of money into a game. Is this healthy player behaviour? Of course not and no game dev would say it is. Is there a majority of players who manage to play in a healthy way? Usually there is. Nevertheless, a significant part of funding for those games comes from the few whales, so the game only works as a business because some players get addicted to it.

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