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Quitting a New Job

yolken.net

161–170 of 246 posts

Re: Quitting a New Job

#161
post #86
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all on top of the fact that engineers are woefully underpaid. I have finance friends that make literal millions in yearly bonuses. This is virtually unheard of in software, even though we provide orders of magnitude more value. That doesn't necessarily mean engineers are woefully underpaid. It may just be that your finance friends are obscenely overpaid. Though whether all/most engineers provide "orders of…

> Some of the highest-paid engineers, AIUI, devote their considerable expertise to optimising ad click rates. I worked on an ad product with a team of 10 or so data scientists + engineers. I'd wager most of us made between 100k-175k + some tiny bonuses here and there. The product we built was making the company $2.5 million a month . But hey we all got some cool jackets and a pat on the back. Give me a break. Money t…

i would guess that a hypothetical survey of the software engineering profession would rank "solving intellectually challenging and interesting problems" as one of the top values if not the top.

if you buy that, it's no surprise that many software engineers (albeit not necessary ultra professional ones) are willing to give away their labor for free to the world, on the internet, in their (spare?) time. to them, it's just a fulfilling use of time, and that it may be valuable on its own or on behalf of capital, isn't really a big deal.

it should also be no surprise, then, that despite potentially automating away entire industries (e.g. transportation) whose proceeds will ostensibly go to those deploying the labor of the engineers, they're perfectly willing to settle in for a "good salary", "cool perks", "comfortable lifestyle", and, most importantly, being fed very difficult problems to hack on. as long as the SWE isn't too bored or too uncomfortable, i think they'd continue to plow ahead, even if their employers stand to gain $Billions from whatever they're doing.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#162
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But after I announced my departure, a few engineers from other teams came up and told me they wished I'd let them know before quitting, since they would have been glad to have me on their team instead. You know I know folks who've actually taken these kind of opportunities and sometimes it works, but other times it results in a) you finding out there are problems with the transfer (headcount or manager blocks trans…

I've done this and having a strong manager advocating for me made all the difference.

How did the initial conversation with your manager go about you leaving? I've definitely left companies before instead of just switching teams because it felt like I had a tough time explaining that my wanting to switch teams wasn't the manager's fault and it was easier to explain wanting to switch companies instead without making it seem like a personal affront to the manager. I'm wondering now if I wasn't giving my old manager enough credit for taking bad news well.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, for a while there Google thought that asking how many basketballs could fit into a school bus was a good way to find good coders. Just because Google does it doesn’t mean it’s smart. And when is the last time you had to balance a binary tree or write Djikstra’s algorithm from memory anyways?

Curiously, in my non coding management role, I busted out Djikstra’s algorithm last year to the amazement of most of the developers, who thought the problem in front of them was insoluble. It turned out that yes, it is in the general case, but it was totally possible to brute force the results required for the constrained task at hand on a laptop in Python and store the ~60k optimal solutions in a lightning fast key/…

Interesting anecdote non-withstanding, a white board interview would have not been a good way to predict your ability to have done that. The limiting factor was not your ability to remember the algorithm from memory, which you didn’t do, but the ability to make complex decisions based on real world constraints and data. In a whiteboard situation, chances are the “correct” answer would be “it’s not possible”, since without knowing the actual data set that’s true.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#164
post #128

I'm about a month into a new FAANG job, and I hate it so far. I can't decide if it's better to quit sooner as to not waste the companies time (and avoid suffering more), or if I should give it some more time. My team's work seems super boring, I'm not interested in the tech we use, the setup process has been a shit-show, and I'm feeling zero motivation. I've mostly worked for startup to mid sized companies in the pas…

> I've mostly worked for startup to mid sized companies in the past I saw an anecdote a few years ago about a hiring manager basically saying, "If you worked happily for a small startup, you will most likely be unable to put up with the bureaucracy of a large enterprise from now on" I've often wondered how much truth there was to that statement.

Probably a lot. Unless you're getting paid enough to put up with it:) That being said, I think a lot people that aren't singularly money-focused overestimate how much money will outweigh other factors in their job.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#165
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that it's the reality of most senior IC engineering positions. As a Googler (opinions are my own), to get higher ranks, you need to lead larger projects that are cross team (it's even in our engineering ladder description) and do leadership type work. BUT, I've met a few people where that is not always true. They tend to be people that can come up with unique solutions to difficult problems that are actuall…

The problem with Google's promo/perf process for years is that this trajectory towards upper level positioning was essentially mandatory. When I started they used to say that if you didn't get to L5 in 4 years or so, you would start getting scrutiny applied to you. L5 is sort of "team-lead light" and does require inter-team collaboration, project/code leadership/ownership, etc. I always felt like this process is corr…

The policy was not dropped, the terminal level was just moved to L4.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#166
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Provide value"? Hmmm. To whom? Not humanity in general, I think." The organization they're employed at. Which is obvious because we're talking about jobs here; that's what salaries are, in part, based on.

In that case, finance people with said bonuses indeed make that kind of value. Though I am not quite sure the average finance person makes more than the average software engineer.

I didn't claim to agree with the original comment. I didn't even give an opinion. I just clarified where value is being measured.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#167
post #128

I'm about a month into a new FAANG job, and I hate it so far. I can't decide if it's better to quit sooner as to not waste the companies time (and avoid suffering more), or if I should give it some more time. My team's work seems super boring, I'm not interested in the tech we use, the setup process has been a shit-show, and I'm feeling zero motivation. I've mostly worked for startup to mid sized companies in the pas…

> I've mostly worked for startup to mid sized companies in the past I saw an anecdote a few years ago about a hiring manager basically saying, "If you worked happily for a small startup, you will most likely be unable to put up with the bureaucracy of a large enterprise from now on" I've often wondered how much truth there was to that statement.

The bureaucracy sucks, but I think I could deal with that. The biggest buzzkill for me is working on such minuscule parts of enormous systems. In software, the results of your work are already pretty abstract, but working for a huge company, it's on another level, and I just can't find any motivation in it. It's never interested me, and I'm not sure why I thought it would for the right price.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#168
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've mostly worked for startup to mid sized companies in the past I saw an anecdote a few years ago about a hiring manager basically saying, "If you worked happily for a small startup, you will most likely be unable to put up with the bureaucracy of a large enterprise from now on" I've often wondered how much truth there was to that statement.

Probably a lot. Unless you're getting paid enough to put up with it:) That being said, I think a lot people that aren't singularly money-focused overestimate how much money will outweigh other factors in their job.

I was super motivated by the money when I was doing leetcode prep, and then when negotiating and playing offers against each other. And that makes sense, the work I was doing had a direct correlation to the total compensation I ended up signing for. But now that those fat pay checks are coming in, they provide zero motivation, it's just a slightly bigger number in my bank account.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this solve the other problem, that job hopping is the best way to get a raise?

The power move is to have an offer in hand and then tell your company that you're considering leaving for , but you'd like to give them a chance to beat your new offer by . Some companies will flat-out refuse to negotiate in this way as a matter of policy, and some will really appreciate you giving them the opportunity to bid to keep you; it really depends on the company and their comp strategy. I think as long as yo…

Do you really think you’ll be treated the same by management if you pull that?
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