An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project • Hacker News Board

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#161

Post by saurik » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #153

saurik wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to change the world--incepting some politician to change their position or some businessperson to alter their product--that makes a lot of sense... if you are working for some company extracting value from you, why would you ever do this? I can't imagine it would help your career any... shouldn't you be spending all of that effort finding a less toxic place to work?

> if you are working for some company extracting value from you, why would you ever do this? Because there can be massive monetary rewards for it? (Sorry if that’s the obvious answer we’re all pretending isn’t there.) We’re talking about the Xbox project, where one of the leaders is so rich he pays people to help him cook ancient Egyptian bread for something to do.

Ok, so if you are incepting someone into giving you a pay raise or a dividend or options or a commission on a new project, that makes some sense to me; but if you are just working at a company and have to move mountains to convince people to do something that they will never even be able to appreciate you for it because part of the process was tricking them into thinking it was their own idea, then I guess I am saying you also need to make damned sure that you aren't going to just work for that project and have protection against being replaced on it: you need to incept the further idea that you should get a cut of the upside (which just sounds difficult in a world where you are explicitly diverting any credit for the idea to someone else).

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#162

Post by hahajk » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #135

bennysonething wrote: post #100

"world's most reviled software" Right, yeah, people hated Microsoft's software so much that they bought it by the bucket load. Also that comment about midway being problematic. Why is it problematic!? Did WW2 not happen? Who'd actually be offended?

It's the only software in the world I've tried to actively avoid buying and failed. At least 7 times now. It's the shopping channel of software. Whether or not you wanted it it comes bundled. I'm pretty sure it'd be a lot less popular if every OEM had a check box that said Ubuntu that deducted the license fee. MS frowns upon that sort of thing, though.

I found an article that says that OEMs pay around $10 for a Windows license, at least for tablets. If I was buying a new computer I’d probably keep Windows installed for $10 just in case I needed to dual boot some time in the future.

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#163

Post by liotier » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

grababner wrote: post #74

'He tells us: "Eventually somebody would come back to you with your idea – they would say, 'Hey, you know, this doesn't need Windows at all'. And you have to control your urge to fucking kill them, because you've been telling them that for two years and now they finally come up with it like it's their idea. But that's the Jedi mind trick." ' OMG. I learned this a few years ago working in a corp environment with stubb…

> in a corp environment with stubborn senior people with big egos. Basically, to get one of these types on board with your idea you have to find a way to convince them the idea was originally theirs. Sounds strange I know..

Not strange at all: that is the way my mother has always operated with my father.

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#164

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

jbj wrote: post #141

grababner wrote: post #74

'He tells us: "Eventually somebody would come back to you with your idea – they would say, 'Hey, you know, this doesn't need Windows at all'. And you have to control your urge to fucking kill them, because you've been telling them that for two years and now they finally come up with it like it's their idea. But that's the Jedi mind trick." ' OMG. I learned this a few years ago working in a corp environment with stubb…

That was alledgedly how the Technical University of Denmark was started by Hans Christian Ørsted after he praised government officials of "their" idea of a polytechnical learning institution.

Imagine the same trick being used with Trump: “it was your idea to wear face masks”.

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#165

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #130

grababner wrote: post #74

'He tells us: "Eventually somebody would come back to you with your idea – they would say, 'Hey, you know, this doesn't need Windows at all'. And you have to control your urge to fucking kill them, because you've been telling them that for two years and now they finally come up with it like it's their idea. But that's the Jedi mind trick." ' OMG. I learned this a few years ago working in a corp environment with stubb…

If your goal is to change the world--incepting some politician to change their position or some businessperson to alter their product--that makes a lot of sense... if you are working for some company extracting value from you, why would you ever do this? I can't imagine it would help your career any... shouldn't you be spending all of that effort finding a less toxic place to work?

You can’t just keep running from all of your difficult situations. Sometimes the best way to avoid something is figuring it out.

You sometimes see other people never face the same situations you face repeatedly. That is life telling you that you need to learn and that they’ve already figured that part out. That is why when they face the situation it doesn’t seem so intense.

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#166

Post by milliondollar » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

seer wrote: post #156

grababner wrote: post #74

'He tells us: "Eventually somebody would come back to you with your idea – they would say, 'Hey, you know, this doesn't need Windows at all'. And you have to control your urge to fucking kill them, because you've been telling them that for two years and now they finally come up with it like it's their idea. But that's the Jedi mind trick." ' OMG. I learned this a few years ago working in a corp environment with stubb…

The way I see it, you are just a single data point to the senior people. You mention something, they hear it from a couple of other places and they are now convinced that its a good path forward. You can put your black hat and game this by making sure you suggest whatever you’re after to more people/sources of info that your target listens to. Bonus points for going through intermediaries that obscure the source of t…

..and you've just described what management consultants do at scale.

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#167

Post by rwallace » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

loosescrews wrote: post #90

Has Xbox ever been profitable for Microsoft? The rumors I have always heard indicated that it wasn't [1]. Maybe it was worthwhile for protecting their Windows business, maybe they never should have bothered. Even if it is profitable now (I can't find any information one way or another), it doesn't seem like it turned out to be a worthwhile investment. Maybe Steve Ballmer was right? [1] https://www.cgmagonline.com/201…

I have seen it claimed that, roughly speaking,

- The sale price of the Xbox itself pays for the per-unit cost of the machine

- The percentage Microsoft gets of the sale price of games, adds just about enough to pay for the development and marketing costs, so at that point, the business doesn't do much better than breaking even

- But when you add in the ongoing revenue from online gaming, that's where the profit comes from

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#168

Post by victor106 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:36 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #161

kortilla wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are working for some company extracting value from you, why would you ever do this? Because there can be massive monetary rewards for it? (Sorry if that’s the obvious answer we’re all pretending isn’t there.) We’re talking about the Xbox project, where one of the leaders is so rich he pays people to help him cook ancient Egyptian bread for something to do.

Ok, so if you are incepting someone into giving you a pay raise or a dividend or options or a commission on a new project, that makes some sense to me; but if you are just working at a company and have to move mountains to convince people to do something that they will never even be able to appreciate you for it because part of the process was tricking them into thinking it was their own idea, then I guess I am sayin…

Agree with this. If you’re not going to be recognized for your efforts in someway then what’s the point?

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#169

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

seer wrote: post #156

grababner wrote: post #74

'He tells us: "Eventually somebody would come back to you with your idea – they would say, 'Hey, you know, this doesn't need Windows at all'. And you have to control your urge to fucking kill them, because you've been telling them that for two years and now they finally come up with it like it's their idea. But that's the Jedi mind trick." ' OMG. I learned this a few years ago working in a corp environment with stubb…

The way I see it, you are just a single data point to the senior people. You mention something, they hear it from a couple of other places and they are now convinced that its a good path forward. You can put your black hat and game this by making sure you suggest whatever you’re after to more people/sources of info that your target listens to. Bonus points for going through intermediaries that obscure the source of t…

I think it can be as simple as...

"I was thinking about what you said, and you were totally right, if we then we can achieve . I'm really glad you said that - you really gave me a new perspective on this."

Re: An internal team 'hoodwinked' Bill Gates into launching the Xbox project

#170

Post by naikrovek » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

volgar1x wrote: post #112

naikrovek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds strange I know. There is nothing strange about that, unfortunately. It's just how people work. Things like this are also why I sincerely hope that humanity eventually dies off and is replaced by literally any species, natural or artificial, that bases decisions on logic and facts. There is no such thing as a meritocracy when humans are involved, no matter how much we delude ourselves to believe otherwise.

It is time to take some vacations pal.

Thanks for the advice that wasn't requested and isn't appreciated. Also, we aren't pals.