Reminds me of this classic letter to a post-doc:
http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2010/06/22/something-deeply-wr...
Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
161–170 of 178 posts
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> I've never encountered any form of bullying or discrimination in my 15 years academic career (in three different countries). Great to hear that you've not encountered bullying in the academy, but it absolutely does exist and is unfortunately thriving. Often when it occurs, the university will side with the academic rather than postdoc or PhD students, which puts them in an extremely difficult situation since their…
An appendum: I acknowledge "thriving" is not the ideal word to use. However, bullying within academia exists and is increasingly more common than people release. Often because it's something that goes unsaid and unreported, in part out of fear of repercussions for the reporter rather than the bully because the academy protects the latter.
> bullying ... is increasingly more common than people release.
How can you make this statement if it’s unsaid and unreported?
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#163> Long hours and a lack of job security, combined with workplace bullying and discrimination, are forcing many to consider leaving science I've never encountered any form of bullying or discrimination in my 15 years academic career (in three different countries). What I witnessed a few times though where post-docs that just got disinterested in their work and unproductive for months. It's not uncommon for post-docs s…
>Academia is hard because it's extremely competitive, The issue isn't the level of competitiveness but the cost of losing. Now that I'm outside academia, there's plenty of competition. For example, getting a good job at Google is just as competitive as getting a tenure-track position. The difference is that I can easily get a respectable job that pays the bills if I don't make the cut for Google. A nice side effect o…
> getting a good job at Google is just as competitive as getting a tenure-track position.
From my experience this is not true. I personally know about 10 classmates who either dropped out of the (pure math) PhD or left academia immediately afterwards and ended up at FAANG as generic SWE. They all said that a few months of DS and alg prep was enough.
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#164The people expanding our scientific understanding of the world being undervalued by society and institutions is the epitome of our current state. We're burning out our engines and slowing down innovation... for what? Can any academics or postdocs express what they believe should change to improve their situations?
>The people expanding our scientific understanding of the world being undervalued by society I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but maybe it is because the expansion of scientific understanding produced by academia and academics has dwindled when it comes to applications in real life. Sure I will come across click-bait articles about new research on black holes and dark matter/energy/whatever every week, but i…
Is that an opinion based on facts or mere impression? And if it's based on facts, would you be willing to share the source?
Further, what is it that you're implying with that statement?
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you don't get tenure right away I don't understand how you can be a professor and not be tenured, so I guess we're talking about different things.
A fresh postdoc able to secure an academic job joins as an "Assistant Professor". Fresh Assistant Professors usually cannot recruit PhD students, have limited funds to establish their lab, and no job security. It takes several grades and 15+ years to reach the position of "Professor", which comes with tenure.
Who told you assistant profs can’t recruit PhD students?
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can relate. I just read this at 3am while trying to stop wondering what to do with my life. I had the childhood dream of being a professor, and after a short stint in industry, when someone gave me the chance to do a PhD I took it. Life got in the way and got my PhD at 36 years old. Nobody guided me, and did not optimize my publication schedule, so it is impossible to land a job in academia. Now I am postdoc 39, no…
I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor) I met one person at my Master's degree lab who went on to PhD, he said his childhood dream was to be a professor (and his father was a professor). I also have a father that is a professor (and have been very curious about PhD - although that win…
> I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor)
Bluntly, if your goal is to become a professor, don't. With 99.99% certainty, you will not become a professor and the opportunity cost is extremely high.
Almost nobody with a PhD who dreams of being a professor ever actually gets to be. Most quit or only ever become adjuncts, and, in the US at least, adjuncts earn less than minimum wage and get zero respect from anyone. Most likely you will be abused by institution after institution who will keep telling you how important your dream is while stringing you along and paying you next to nothing. Or you will quit. Or you will have a mental breakdown.
If you can see yourself being happy doing literally anything else, do literally anything else. If you can't see yourself being happy doing literally anything else, spend some more time thinking about it.
If you're independently wealthy and don't really need to succeed at the goal to live a happy life of luxury, then definitely go for it.
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#167The people expanding our scientific understanding of the world being undervalued by society and institutions is the epitome of our current state. We're burning out our engines and slowing down innovation... for what? Can any academics or postdocs express what they believe should change to improve their situations?
More staff scientist positions. Academia, especially in the US and Canada, only has one viable long-term job: a faculty position. Everything else is ostensibly “training” for that job and there’s increasing pressure to make that transition as quickly as possible, in part because the low pay and stability of the other positions. This is stupid. Since professors produce trainees, the competition gets exponentially wors…
100% agree with this. If we seek true breakthroughs, we need highly experienced and focused teams working together on specific problems. These teams should be comprised primarily of staff scientists, like they have at the national laboratories like Lawrence. Given how high of a priority the US government places on funding biomedical research, it doesn't make sense for the vast majority of funding to be allocated to principal investigators who count that research project as only one of their numerous job responsibilities. Nor does it make sense for that work to be executed by under-supported postdocs and technicians. Instead, cultivate a career track that goes from grad student to junior -> senior staff scientist. Prioritize positions other than academic faculty with continuity and the ability to focus primarily on making steady research advancements.
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The people expanding our scientific understanding of the world being undervalued by society I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but maybe it is because the expansion of scientific understanding produced by academia and academics has dwindled when it comes to applications in real life. Sure I will come across click-bait articles about new research on black holes and dark matter/energy/whatever every week, but i…
Is that an opinion based on facts or mere impression? And if it's based on facts, would you be willing to share the source? Further, what is it that you're implying with that statement?
Clearly it's based on impression, and not based on facts, and I gave no indication that it was. So no, I don't have a source for that.
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor) I met one person at my Master's degree lab who went on to PhD, he said his childhood dream was to be a professor (and his father was a professor). I also have a father that is a professor (and have been very curious about PhD - although that win…
> I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor) Bluntly, if your goal is to become a professor, don't. With 99.99% certainty, you will not become a professor and the opportunity cost is extremely high. Almost nobody with a PhD who dreams of being a professor ever actually gets to be. Most q…
Seems like the general consensus is that PhD might not be a waste of time, but whatever path afterwards in Academia might be. Thanks for the feedback!
Re: Postdocs under pressure: ‘Can I even do this any more?’
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
A fresh postdoc able to secure an academic job joins as an "Assistant Professor". Fresh Assistant Professors usually cannot recruit PhD students, have limited funds to establish their lab, and no job security. It takes several grades and 15+ years to reach the position of "Professor", which comes with tenure.
I don't understand how you can go from being a postdoc to being a professor. That seems to really diminish the value of the title 'professor' to me, if people can get it as basically their first permanent academic job.
In my home country (India) the academic job hierarchy used to be "Lecturer" --> "Reader" --> "Professor"
Somewhere in the last decade or so this nomenclature was revised to "Assistant Professor", "Associate Professor", and "Professor". I can't speak to the rationale for this, but it brings it in line with the naming convention in the US.
While the minimum requirement for an Assistant Professor job in India is a Masters, in practice now you really need at least 2+ years of Postdoc experience. To move up to an Associate Prof. position, the minimum requirement is at least 5+ years of post PhD experience, to have guided at least one PhD student, and n number of publications with x Impact Factor. A Professor requires at least 10 years of post PhD experience, and at least 3 PhD students. Of course, these are minimum requirements, and I know of several people who far exceed those qualifications and still waiting to move up the ladder. For example, a senior from my graduate lab has been an Assistant Prof for about 14 years now, has 15+ publications, and 3 PhD students who've gained their degrees.