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Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

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161–170 of 345 posts

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#161

This statistic from the article is mind-boggling: > Ultra-processed products now account for nearly half of the average dietary intake of some high income countries, with consumption rising rapidly in most other countries. Note that they aren't just referring to processed foods. They classify ultra-processed foods as a step beyond what we typically think of as processed foods: > Ultra-processed foods and beverages ca…

The popularity of Chipotle really says a lot to me. The steak bowls are a little more cost effective, but for the price of one chicken bowl, you seriously could make at least 4 chicken bowls if you simply went to the grocery store instead of Chipotle. The time to cook and prepare is quite similar to Chipotle as well, especially if you go to Chipotle instead of delivery. Rice, beans, salsa, lettuce, cheese, chicken. E…

I can walk into Chipotle, order a burrito, and be out in less than 5 minutes with a delicious meal and no clean-up (maybe 10 if there's a lineup).

It takes me much longer to cook the chicken and rice, even if the 'prep' is done, and I still have to clean up!

I have what I'd consider a healthy diet, and I've been avoiding restaurant and prepared meals throughout the pandemic, but cooking everything has been a huge time-sink.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure some foods are inherently addictive, but I hesitate to put the blame on specific foods because I gained most of my weight from eating sushi rice… a pot at a time. My experience suggests to me that food addiction is primarily psychological in nature and is often the result of a history of "experience coupling" (examples to follow) and a genuine misunderstanding of what feeling "full" truly feels like. Most ob…

"have no idea when they've eaten enough food and often don't stop eating until they're in pain" Our hunger / satiety feelings are driven hormonally by hormones called ghrelin and leptin. Ideally, those two take care of a perfect equilibrium. If something messes this self-balancing mechanism up, feelings of hunger and satiety may no longer respond to actual caloric intake - a recipe for a slow-motion disaster.

Worth noting that satiety (to a large degree controlled by leptin) is triggered much more by fat than by other macro nutrients. So white rice, and all other carbs, are worse on that axis too - high in calories but not very filling, thus promoting overeating. The decades of war on fat have contributed to people indulging in these foods.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#163
post #13

The article states that : Ultra-processed products now account for nearly half of the average dietary intake of some high income countries, with consumption rising rapidly in most other countries. I've never lived for more than 1-2 months in any of these "high income countries". What does it mean to consume "ultra-processed" food? Can someone give an example how the daily dietary intake can be 50% processed foods? Wh…

Can't believe no one has quoted Michael Pollan yet, but his 7 rules still ring true (see #4 for your question):

1. Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. "When you pick up that box of portable yogurt tubes, or eat something with 15 ingredients you can't pronounce, ask yourself, "What are those things doing there?" Pollan says.

2. Don’t eat anything with more than five ingredients, or ingredients you can't pronounce.

3. Stay out of the middle of the supermarket; shop on the perimeter of the store. Real food tends to be on the outer edge of the store near the loading docks, where it can be replaced with fresh foods when it goes bad.

4. Don't eat anything that won't eventually rot. "There are exceptions -- honey -- but as a rule, things like Twinkies that never go bad aren't food," Pollan says.

5. It is not just what you eat but how you eat. "Always leave the table a little hungry," Pollan says. "Many cultures have rules that you stop eating before you are full. In Japan, they say eat until you are four-fifths full. Islamic culture has a similar rule, and in German culture they say, 'Tie off the sack before it's full.'"

6. Families traditionally ate together, around a table and not a TV, at regular meal times. It's a good tradition. Enjoy meals with the people you love. "Remember when eating between meals felt wrong?" Pollan asks.

7. Don't buy food where you buy your gasoline. In the U.S., 20% of food is eaten in the car.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#164

This statistic from the article is mind-boggling: > Ultra-processed products now account for nearly half of the average dietary intake of some high income countries, with consumption rising rapidly in most other countries. Note that they aren't just referring to processed foods. They classify ultra-processed foods as a step beyond what we typically think of as processed foods: > Ultra-processed foods and beverages ca…

The popularity of Chipotle really says a lot to me. The steak bowls are a little more cost effective, but for the price of one chicken bowl, you seriously could make at least 4 chicken bowls if you simply went to the grocery store instead of Chipotle. The time to cook and prepare is quite similar to Chipotle as well, especially if you go to Chipotle instead of delivery. Rice, beans, salsa, lettuce, cheese, chicken. E…

That’s not remotely true at all.

a) Walk into Chipotle, walk out. $10, 10 minutes.

b) Prepare a list of ingredients. Go to the grocery store. Find and select those ingredients. Go home. Cook and prepare ingredients. Clean dishes and cookware. $7, 2 hours.

Is your time worth so little that you’d spend hours to save $3?

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#165
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but there's also a distinction to be made among kinds of carbohydrates. I think of it in two categories, coal and jet fuel. Coal is stuff like potatoes - it's fuel, but it lasts a long time. Twinkies, white bread, and even white rice are jet fuel - they burn really fast, and then they're gone. Eat carbs that are coal, not jet fuel.

Definitely differences, but I'm not convinced it matters so much, at least in healthy people. E.g., lots of people eat a whole lot of white rice and seem to do quite well on it. The Hadza, a tribe in africa, at certain times of the year, get about half their calories from honey, and they are very healthy. And fruit would certainly also have to be in the rocket-fuel category, no? (If you're already unhealthy (e.g. typ…

"The honey isn’t your store-bought, pristine golden syrup smelling faintly of HFCS. It’s straight up honeycomb, teeming with bees and larvae and pollen and the queenly secretions called royal jelly. In fact, studies tend to emphasize that the Hadza get 15-50% of their calories not from honey, but from “honey and bee larvae.”" -https://www.marksdailyapple.com/hadza-honey/

They aren't eating the honey that your or I eat. Not to mention, they're probably far more physically active.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#166

Just by comparing photos and videos from the 1980s to the situation in the streets now, it is painfully obvious that we (and by "we" I mean at least half of humanity) have a serious obesity and metabolic syndrome problem. It is breathtaking how civilized nations silently accept such an enormous slide in quality of life, when other, much smaller problems lead to civic unrest, political discussions and overhaul of old…

45 here. Here's what I've noticed since the 80s: - More wealth and more choices now. - More eating out now. Meals are bigger, sweeter, richer, etc. - Less activity now. When I was a kid, video games were just getting started and most folks didn't own computers. TV & media was less engaging. Food addiction seems more... refined these days. There is a lot less fat shaming too, although I'm not suggesting we bring it ba…

I don't think its the food, I feel its several cultural shifts:

- The tamping down of phy ed classes and general removal of exercise from elementary schools with more of an emphasis on learning. If you are not ok shape in middle school, it leads to learning issues. One problem begets the other

- Shifts in parenting. When I grew up in the 1980's, our family ALWAYS ate dinner at home, together as a family. My mom got home early from work when me and my sister got home from school and started dinner before my Dad got him from his job. We RARELY ate out and it was looked as a privilege, not something that happened often.

- The shift from the nuclear family. Most of my friends are married and both parents work full time, their kids are heavily involved in sports, and after school activities. Less time for family, less time for organized meals, less time to prepare good food for your kids. The basic idea now is "just get something in them and get them to soccer, hockey, gymnastics practice, etc."

Likewise, the parents have little or time to properly feed themselves either. Same thing, grab something fast, shovel the food into your kid, then get something fast on the way home before you have to jump back on your laptop and finish the last bit of work you didn't get done because you had to get little Bobby to practice.

This is a situation that never gets any better. Your kids have more activities, you constantly have more work to do. The go go go go attitude of our culture has left the nuclear family and our nutrition in the dust.

Humans are lazy by nature. Make it easier to eat unhealthy foods and we'll do it. Its all we've done for the past 40 years.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The popularity of Chipotle really says a lot to me. The steak bowls are a little more cost effective, but for the price of one chicken bowl, you seriously could make at least 4 chicken bowls if you simply went to the grocery store instead of Chipotle. The time to cook and prepare is quite similar to Chipotle as well, especially if you go to Chipotle instead of delivery. Rice, beans, salsa, lettuce, cheese, chicken. E…

That’s not remotely true at all. a) Walk into Chipotle, walk out. $10, 10 minutes. b) Prepare a list of ingredients. Go to the grocery store. Find and select those ingredients. Go home. Cook and prepare ingredients. Clean dishes and cookware. $7, 2 hours. Is your time worth so little that you’d spend hours to save $3?

Decide what I want today : pasta, rice or a steak with mashed potatos.

Defrost some fish or meat. Do other stuff while it thawes.

Chop some vegetables, cook some water, cook & fry. 30 minutes while I do other stuff.

Pasta, rice, beans, potatos, fresh vegetables and meat & fish, I have plenty of stock. And I live really small.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#168
post #50

This statistic from the article is mind-boggling: > Ultra-processed products now account for nearly half of the average dietary intake of some high income countries, with consumption rising rapidly in most other countries. Note that they aren't just referring to processed foods. They classify ultra-processed foods as a step beyond what we typically think of as processed foods: > Ultra-processed foods and beverages ca…

>, but in my experience most people prefer these foods because they think it's more convenient. [...] Everyone should learn how to cook some boring, staple meals using basic ingredients from the store. It's amazing how many people don't know how easy and cheap it can be to prepare simple crock pot or stir-fry meals that are healthy and delicious. I'm a strict health food eater but I have to be realistic and concede t…

Can you share your green smoothie drink recipe?

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#169
Ok sorry to rant but the HN community lectures about processed food are misguided. As always, people trot out the "just eat less, its simple calories" and "stop eating junk food stupid Americans". This rests on the critical fallacy that those who do not have a weight problem are smarter, more active, or somehow make better choices. Do you really believe its that simple? This is a bit like the software devs who always believe "we'll write it better from scratch, its an _easy_ problem to solve", not realizing the people who wrote it the way it is probably had legitimate reasons to do so.

The truth is complex and no single factor can explain it. I've seen plenty of people with terrible diets eating the same or worse than others and not gaining weight -- even with little physical activity (just due to genetics), and I've seen metabolic issues make it nearly impossible for someone to lose weight even doing things "right". If you want to prove how "simple" weight loss and eating healthy is, then by all means take a thyroid blocker for a few months and get back to me.

As for blaming stupid people for just consuming too much bad food: I can tell you that this is 100% an environment / market force just like every other behavior you and I have (such as language we speak, recipes we know, and clothes we wear). Like all other animals, we have a finely tuned feeding system that is highly tuned and can be influenced by stimuli. Put junk food in the cage of some mice for a few years and see how it ends up. Without clear evidence that anyone is actively deciding to make choices they know are bad, we can only conclude these are the forces driving the decisions. In fact most "cheating" behavior is because people's judgment faculties are being outweighed by more primal hunger drives that overwhelm higher cognition.

As a kid in the USA you primarily feed on sodas, candy, cookies, corn dogs, puffs, hamburgers, french fries and other junk food. This is what your parents give you, what school serves you in the cafeteria, and what your friends eat. This is encouraged by all media (such as TV which markets directly to you), and by the powers-that-be who put soda machines and candy machines in the hallways at school and even hand out candy as treats and snacks daily.

So please try to understand that this is no more mysterious than the reason Einstein smoked: not because he was a moron with poor willpower and low self-control, but because he was a product of his time, environment, developmental influences, and available information. Its no more mysterious than the reason he spoke German, or that Romans went insane drinking from lead containers.

As for cleaning up your diet. Once I learned about these issues and started trying to eat better, it became clear just how hard it would be. If you live in a rural area, finding _any_ food that isn't processed with a multitude of sweeteners, flavor enhancers, etc is near impossible. Your only option is raw food prepared yourself at home; even spices and seasoning can be laden with additives. Without a lot of patience and examination, you _will_ be consuming these products even if you intend to avoid them. For example, virtually everything at restaurants includes a multitude of these additives.

Sorry for the rant, but I think people need to see the perspective of people who are trying to do the right thing, but up against a really oppressive system of influences, marketing, economics, and daily realities in the US.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#170
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely differences, but I'm not convinced it matters so much, at least in healthy people. E.g., lots of people eat a whole lot of white rice and seem to do quite well on it. The Hadza, a tribe in africa, at certain times of the year, get about half their calories from honey, and they are very healthy. And fruit would certainly also have to be in the rocket-fuel category, no? (If you're already unhealthy (e.g. typ…

"The honey isn’t your store-bought, pristine golden syrup smelling faintly of HFCS. It’s straight up honeycomb, teeming with bees and larvae and pollen and the queenly secretions called royal jelly. In fact, studies tend to emphasize that the Hadza get 15-50% of their calories not from honey, but from “honey and bee larvae.”" - https://www.marksdailyapple.com/hadza-honey/ They aren't eating the honey that your or I e…

That's a good point (especially for anyone considering making store-bought honey a staple of their diet), and an interesting observation, but even so, they would still, at the extreme end of 50% larva, be getting something like overall 25% of their calories from a "rocket fuel" of simple sugar.

So I remain convinced that the main problem with modern processed food is not the amount or makeup of the carbs, but more likely the novel ingredients and quantities of fats.

The Hadza do move a lot, but not a crazy amount: about 2 hours per day of "moderate to vigerous physical activity."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/01/03/5075628...

I would predict that 2 hours of exercise a day are not going to save you from a diet of twinkies and oreos; exercise is great, but eating healthy food is critical.

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