Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 197 posts

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#161

Post by jungturk »

mekster wrote: post #141
rorykoehler wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t disagree but their markups on storage and memory for example are way above normal market rates.

No, you get that idea wrong... It's great Apple pretty much delivers identical devices on a same product line except on the disk space. It's more than the disks for laptops but this means everyone pretty much gets the same experience even if you get the cheapest version and you don't have to go through the technical spec sheet that most people don't understand to figure what you're missing from the more expensive ver…

He's not wrong. The RAM is definitely more expensive to buy from Apple, to the point that I buy the iMac with the base 8GB and then replace with aftermarket RAM and save hundreds of dollars (approximately 15-20% of the price of the entire system).

Fortunately, servicing the iMac RAM is easy in present generations.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#162

Post by OzCrimson »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #110
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play the devil's advocate, most small business in my area of Europe(bars, cafes, bands, jazz/rock halls, shops, restaurants and even dentists) rely on Facebook for reaching out to their customers or audience, organizing and advertising events and even for customer support via Facebook Messenger to the point where their Facebook page has replaced their main website as it's more alive since it's easier for their sta…

It's obvious that people like having access to a service like Facebook. This does not mean that Facebook has to systematically extract every shred of user data across the Internet and sell it to the highest bidder. We can very easily have one without the other.

RIGHT! Facebook has made it OUR problem that THEIR business model is based on selling ads. But it shouldn't be our problem.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#164

Post by OzCrimson »

yunohn wrote: post #143
wcarron wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said - and it pains me to say this - but there is absolutely truth to the fact that the style of targeting now possible on FB & Instagram has enabled an entire world of very small, hyper-niche businesses that otherwise wouldn't exist. Businesses like that have no right to exist if their business model depends entirely on the invasion and flagrant abuse of privacy. Even if we assume that these businesses…

I feel like you’ve misinterpreted OP. Even after they explained themselves with clear disclaimers. They meant that online ads have enabled small businesses to target niche clientele and make cool things, without burning money competing for adspace with everyone else. This is absolutely true, you can ask lots of people, including tech nerds on HN who buy off Instagram ads.

Fine. But when I opt out I want to be truly 100% opted out. Actually, I'd prefer the option to opt IN if I want to be tracked.

I think that's the real issue here. I know people who love targeted advertising. Great. Let them have it. But when I say I want no parts of it, my explicit withdrawal of consent should be honored.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#165

Post by ksec »

signal11 wrote: post #89
ksec wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those business dont need a website. They only need one place ( cough centralised cough ) where their customer can easily find them, have all the relevant information, ( Email, Tele, Opening Time etc ), and a small space for newest update. Which could be special menu once in a while. And that is it. It is the same thing as most business dont need an App. And on the last point, you dont need a Facebook account…

> They only need one place ( cough centralised cough ) where their customer can easily find them, have all the relevant information, ( Email, Tele, Opening Time etc ), and a small space for newest update. Google also offer this service, which lets small businesses display opening times and updates so that searchers get up to date info. I’d argue this is more useful as it lets new customers find you, as opposed to you…

>If this is too much for you, you’re not a serious player. In fact, a business running on a @gmail or @yahoo address, with the online presence being on Facebook screams “amateur” or even possibly “scammer”. In any case it’s a useful signal that the owner isn’t really committed.

This is very much in the context of US. The total Facebook user outside of US exceed the total population of US itself. And most of those business, especially in SEA are simply using amateur email address just to get things done or in some cases, dont even have Email at all as they rely on WhatsApp / Line or just Facebook Messenger.

Just trying to add a Global perspective.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#166

Post by OzCrimson »

zepto wrote: post #86
barkerja wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There doesn't seem to be a good, evident third option just yet. I think a good middle ground here is an opt-out approach on Apple's end. Force the user to make a cognitive choice here with a clear understanding of what their choice means. Communication is key. Some users may very well appreciate and value the hyper-relevant advertisements they see on services, and remain opted-in to the sharing of tracking data. I…

That’s exactly what Apple is planning to implement, and what Facebook opposes. When given a choice, 70% of people opt-out. This is terrifying to Facebook.

I think there should be an opt-IN model. Opting out can be made confusing and difficult and time-consuming.

I've gone to websites that list over 300 3rd parties that they share data with. Opting out means going to every one of those 3rd parties one at a time and hunting for their opt-out link. And those come with a warning:

If you clear your cookies, you'll have to do this again. And the opt-out only applies on this browser on this device.

Suddenly, the consumer has a part-time job that they didn't ask for.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#167

Post by ppetty »

The government (maybe unknowingly) took a huge chance when they allowed acquisition after acquisition to transpire, now there’s genuine concern that that might have been bad for competition. I genuinely hope those same risk takers allow this to play out, too. If this is bad, it’s bad for Facebook along with the other businesses downstream; but just how bad — we should get to find out. And, if that happens, it will be great to see how Facebook will be able to quantify the impact. What data will they reveal about the small businesses? Will the data be of the variety that small businesses might not expect Facebook to have?

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#168

Post by datavirtue »

mekster wrote: post #122

I'm completely impressed Apple is doing that no one can or will probably not do on the future by saving users instead of going for the money. This is far more than "Don't be evil" that Google is trying to be but it's in the area of "Kill the evil". Who has ever done this in the world of business?

Apple has been around an eternity compared to facebook. Apple is looking past them, not willing to get sucked down with them. At the end of the day facebook is going to be a whimper and a snicker.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#169

Post by soupson »

newbie578 wrote: post #117
soupson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn’t sell your data, they sell your future behavior. Being identified the advertisers hasn’t been the point for years. Facebook knows that, so they make a righteous play by saying they keep it safe from advertisers. Facebook doesn’t sell your data, they sell your attention, and that’s much more valuable.

What does that even mean?

Here’s some reading that helped me understand it:

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/books/article/3...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/02/age-of-surveil...

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#170

Post by dividedbyzero »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #94
aminozuur wrote: post #44

I know my comment will get downvoted. But there's a lot of misconception about Facebook, and the other counter-arguments are worth mentioning too. Facebook does not sell our data, in fact, they keep it very secure. Facebook merely allows advertisers to target you based on your interests (which it learns from your activities). Advertisers cannot identify anyone, they just select categories for which they want their ad…

You get downvoted because user poll after poll reveal that users find "ads relevant to their interests" creepy, specially when phrased that way and specially when accompanied with web history tracking and the like. In any case, I am sure Facebook does not sell their data. In fact, it would be suicidal for Facebook to sell their data. It's their goldmine; their only advantage. Why would they do it? But already what th…

> But already what they do with it _themselves_ is a problem.

That they have it is a problem. That one entity knows so much about billions of people, in such intimate detail, that's a huge problem.

Post reply on HN