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FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#161

Post by yur3i__ »

sneak wrote: post #17
codetrotter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a privacy point of view I agree that it sounds like a good thing and I hope it happens. From an entrepreneurial point of view I wonder how it will affect the future of big tech players acquiring other companies.

From a privacy point of view it doesn't matter who collects it so long as the FBI and US military can retrieve it on-demand without a warrant or probable cause under FAA 702.

I disagree with this. Privately owned threats are still a big deal, even if government threats also exist.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#162

Post by jsperson »

As a thought experiment, imagine what the actual remedy is. An interesting concept would be to break up Facebook using AT&T as a metaphor. Make Facebook open up it's API to allow other applications to connect much like the baby bells could connect to the central network and eventually there were separate interconnected networks.

So the FB feed exists, but multiple apps can post. Each app consumes the feed and sells advertising to their own platform with FB charging a reasonable fixed interconnect fee.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#163

Post by mrlala »

bilal4hmed wrote: post #109
jb1991 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iMessage, Slack, Teams These don’t really compete with WhatsApp, which is cross platform, not tied to an employer, doesn’t require an invitation, subscription, friend network, setup to use, among other things.

Line, Viber, Telegram, Signal, Matrix etc etc.....there is so much competition in the messaging space.

WhatsApp is basically the norm outside of the US from what I can tell?

So yeah, there's really no "competition". Either you have whatsapp or you don't talk to people.

And it's highly used for cross-business communication in Europe, I can tell you that.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#164

Post by Barrin92 »

thebigman433 wrote: post #127
djrogers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> independent Oculus can stagnate My experience has been that technology is far more likely to stagnate at BigCo than SmallCo - especially if SmallCo's only source of revenue is said technology.

I think down the line that would be true, but Facebook's willingness to burn literal billions of dollars at this point is basically the only thing carrying VR. Id love to see it split off in the future though.

I'm not sure big money is what is needed to create a flourishing VR sector. The appeal of VR has always been creating virtual experiences that are different and unique. honestly I think it makes much more sense for that scene to be decentralised and independent. Kind of like Minecraft came about, I have trouble imagining it as some sort big money project.

I don't think the issue with VR at this point is so much technical than it is that nobody's yet been creative enough to make something truly unique with it.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#165

Post by bzb6 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #155

I feel like instead of pushing for the companies to separate, congress should pass laws mandating [adversarial interoperability]( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera... ). Then the data (including the social graph) really would belong to the users, and facebook would have to compete with multiple other “social network clients” that would rapidly emerge. Facebook would lose some monopoly profi…

No thanks, I don’t want to spend all day receiving spam via WhatsApp like in the days of irc.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#167

Post by paxys »

jcfrei wrote: post #156
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, after skimming through the PDF of the complaint ( https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbco... ), it appears the FTC is not seeking that remedy. It appears VR is still too small of a market for them to care about.

Seems a bit short-sighted because if Oculus becomes the dominant VR platform that Facebook envisions it to be then it's going to dwarf instagram in terms of economic importance (for advertisers and users) over the long term.

The flip side of it is that VR isn't mature enough for a company like Oculus to succeed independently. Having the resources of Facebook behind it will help the VR market as a whole (for now).

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#168

Post by pbourke »

jsinai wrote: post #148
fishtacos wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the FTC.gov[1]: "The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position, although Section 2 of the Sherman Act also bans attempts to monopolize and conspiracies to monopolize. As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market.…

The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem. The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is…

> The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms.

It will be interesting to see the government prove this for Facebook while ignoring the 800lb gorillas of Google/Doubleclick or Amazon’s ad network.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#169

Post by paxys »

jsperson wrote: post #162

As a thought experiment, imagine what the actual remedy is. An interesting concept would be to break up Facebook using AT&T as a metaphor. Make Facebook open up it's API to allow other applications to connect much like the baby bells could connect to the central network and eventually there were separate interconnected networks. So the FB feed exists, but multiple apps can post. Each app consumes the feed and sells a…

> Make Facebook open up it's API to allow other applications to connect much like the baby bells could connect to the central network and eventually there were separate interconnected networks.

The Facebook API is already pretty open. That's how we got Cambridge Analytica.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#170

Post by fishtacos »

pbourke wrote: post #168
jsinai wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem. The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is…

> The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. It will be interesting to see the government prove this for Facebook while ignoring the 800lb gorillas of Google/Doubleclick or Amazon’s ad network.

It's why this is a politicized move by the FTC. No reason to get into politics on this site, but it's pretty obvious.
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