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US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#161
post #144

I kind of know why, but I think I'd like to have some sort of "super-normative" service for most things. No accommodations, no changes, no talk. You board your plane, stand on a conveyor and it takes you to your slot, you bring your own urine and poo bag if you want, the airline charges you for damage to the slot. No dogs, no cats, no nothing. No "can I get a this". For the DMV, you have a checklist and you walk up w…

These ideas have almost no empathy, and they frighten me. The world they describe is a dystopia.

Well, if well-intentioned one could see this as yielding Pareto-optimal outcomes. We could improve service for normative users at the DMV, perhaps charging them for the privilege, and use that to serve other users better.

The USPS does this already and I can't see that it's anything but good.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#162
post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

I have a huge beef with "pet rent," as it's charging people a non-refundable fee for an animal each month, simply for existing. If landlords would prefer their tenants not have pets, simply do not allow them.

I used to work in property management and we charged extra fees each month for pet rent. I initially was against it when I started working there, but by the end I completely understood why they did it.

The reality is that animals are rougher on homes than humans are. Even things like the backyard will have more wear and tear on it with a pet than with humans and all of this has to be dealt with during turn over.

A perfect example of this is paint. During a normal turnover we would do a "tier 3" paint job. Which is to hire someone to come in with a spray gun and spray the walls white. They don't target baseboards or ceilings, but the overspray will generally cover some of it (ever notice how apartments and rentals generally have white walls, white baseboards, and white ceilings?). It is a cheap and lazy paint job that we have negotiated flat rates for $300-$400 per home. This happens no matter what.

But on a home with a pet occupant, it is nearly guaranteed that you would need to perform at least a tier 2 paint job which is generally coupled with a carpet replacement. The carpets are torn up (or peeled back if they are recoverable), the painters come in and spray the walls, baseboards, with overspray on the underlayment (under the carpet) and the ceiling edges. This usually runs us $800 - $900. So pet rent usually goes to that.

After a tier 2 paint job, a carpet contractor usually comes and re-stretches the carpet and does a carpet shampoo. But on a home with a pet occupant this has to be replaced since hair and dirt that most people don't notice, can cause allergies for the next tenant. So with a pet occupant our turnover cost goes from a standard $200 for re-stretching, as much as $1,200 for fresh carpet. Pet fees go to that.

A final turnover item is the backyard. Normally a lawn care company comes to do a standard touch up on the yard. This includes mowing, trimming, leaf blowing, etc, just to make the home presentable for walk-through. But with a pet, the grass is usually thinner after the pet use, and needs some re-seeding. Sometimes it is destroyed with holes or previous renter patches. Fences often need fixing (which gets really expensive, even if it is just a few boards) and so on. A standard lawn turnover usually costs $50. But with a pet it usually is $100+ and I have seen extreme cases where it is in the thousands.

This all comes from someone who owns a big dog that I love. My dog is well behaved. He never has accidents in the house and for the most part doesn't cause noticeable damage. But there are minor things that you just don't notice that I have only seen now that I have experienced it through property management.

Pets really do cause more wear and tear on homes than human-only occupied homes. That is why there are pet fees. They know that more is going to be done when you move out and those fees contribute to limiting that.

Now many renters have learned that if they claim that a pet is an emotional support animal, that they can avoid pet rent. But the reality is that if you claim a pet as an emotional support animal, that you can basically kiss your deposit goodbye. The company that I worked for was pretty good about giving back deposits. There was a $400 non-refundable deposit that we collected upon move in that you never got back. THis covers standard turnover stuff like tier 3 painting and carpet re-stretching. So if you leave the house in good condition, then we can give you everything other than that $400 back, and usually did. If you have a pet, then the extra rent from pet rent is calculated to cover the upgrades to tier 2 paint jobs and carpet replacement jobs. So again, you get your deposit back unless something is beyond normal wear.

But if you avoid pet rent with the emotional support animal, then that is fine. They won't charge you pet rent, but you will certaintly not get any of your deposit back. The owner or property manager still has to do the carpet replacement, yard fixes, and extra painting regardless of whether you pay pet rent or not. So emotional support animals generally lose their deposits to cover these costs, while people with pet rent usually get their deposits back.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#163
post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

How would you react if someone reacts allergic to another human? Genuinely interested as a non-pet owner.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

You are aware that people sometimes have to move, right? Not everyone wants to take their pets on planes just because they are going on vacation.

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#165
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say my way of self-medicating for anxiety during flights is to get wasted. Does this now entitle me to be a drunk asshole on the flight? No, it does not. This is how I view those who abuse this loophole. Find another way to travel that doesn't impact everyone else in the aluminum tube traveling 550mph.

It is abusive for airlines to charge $250 per roundtrip for a ~10 lb carryon that fits under your seat. They are operating a scam. This was the only way around it.

Sounds like you should start an airline that offers and allows pet to fly free or for whatever you think a ~10lb carryon should cost.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#166
post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

Yes, as a blind person I support restrictions on emotional support animals, which is a concept that has been abused more often than it is used. I'm sympathetic to people who want to bring their animals with them, but pretending that your animal is needed to support you emotionally isn't the answer. If you want to create a movement to allow animals at every venue, then start it and society can have that debate. But fi…

Worked for pot.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a huge beef with "pet rent," as it's charging people a non-refundable fee for an animal each month, simply for existing. If landlords would prefer their tenants not have pets, simply do not allow them.

It's not just for existing. Pets can and do cause a lot of damage. They can urinate on the floors or walls, leaving odor that is very difficult to remove. They can chew up or scratch up doors, walls, floors. A pet can easily do thousands of dollars in damage in a one-year lease term. Of course not every pet does this but you don't know in advance. On the other hand landlords compete for tenants. So they may want to a…

Logically, the "surcharge for potential damage" should be a security deposit, or fines and penalties against specific behavior.

You'd have the same issues with tenants that were excessively noisy, or held parties and spilled alcohol in the hallways, or scratched doors/walls/floors from moving bikes, furniture, etc. So it seems inconsistent to apply the nonrefundable fee only to the case of pets.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

How would you react if someone reacts allergic to another human? Genuinely interested as a non-pet owner.

...but people aren't allergic to other humans? I don't understand the point of this hypothetical that does not occur in reality?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#170

I'm finding a lot of the comments in this thread to be hurtful. Yes, many were abusing the system to register pets as service animals. No, that is not a reason to forbid the practice which was genuinely helpful to people like myself who have a phobia of flying coupled with anxiety and having a service animal genuinely helps get through a flight without the need for medication. The problem is the desire to not devote…

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