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Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

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Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#161

Post by eikenberry »

treis wrote: post #136
fsloth wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effectively they are giving drugs that alter ones perception of reality Like over the self painkillers do? Personally I don't see the philosophical difference in alleviating physical pain from alleviating psychological pain. Of course, if the psychological pain is caused by a condition that can be fixed the fixing the condition itself is of course better. But in many cases of depression and anxiety there is no clear…

Painkillers are temporary. The drugs we are talking about are meant to effect a permanent change on the user. And pain killers, at least OTC ones, don't alter someone's psyche. We can, more or less, rely on their judgment that painkillers are helpful. You can't necessarily say the same for mind altering drugs.

> The drugs we are talking about are meant to effect a permanent change on the user.

You'd only say someones judgement about themselves is unreliable if they will contradict themselves later. But if it is a permanent change, then you are talking to the "new" person who is capable of judging this as well as anyone.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#162

Post by m463 »

fsloth wrote: post #20
rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

I presume the main reason for the controversy is the prevailing dogma "Drugs are evil". This dogma has been used to enact countless bills of legislation in most rich countries, which in turn have encumbered the justice and police system, which in turn have put thousands upon thousands of people into to the correctional system for years. After all that busywork, lives destroyed and taxpayer money wasted, it is really…

On the other hand, knowing first-hand of some screwed up lives plus collateral damage, some drugs might just be evil. Thing is, it's hard to tell in the beginning where things are going so people might lump them all in together.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#164

Post by bigbubba »

akiselev wrote: post #159
bigbubba wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming puritanical opposition to fun seems like a 'just so' narrative that fits some of the apparent facts, but is contradicted by others. For instance, American culture glorifies caffeine, particularly coca cola which is portrayed in corporate propaganda as a 'fun' drink. When it comes to commercial products like that, there seems to be no hint of an anti-fun bias, ...except perhaps in the Mormons. While anti-fun a…

The Prohibition was driven primarily by organizations like the Methodist Church and the Anti-Saloon League which were explicit about their religious convictions so it's hard to argue that it's just a "just so" story.

Prohibition was also advanced by suffragettes who were tired of being beaten by drunk men. The truth is multifaceted. As I said, anti-fun was probably part of it, but taking that kernel of truth as a simple narrative is misguided.

Furthermore anti-fun is not the sole religious motivation in play. Puritanism / American protestantism is also associated with the glorification of productivity that I describe above.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#165

Post by cubix »

bigbubba wrote: post #156
drooogs wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

respect is orthogonal to agreement. why would it even be necessary to say you respect someone's decision if you agree without reservation?

Respect seems incompatible with airing your criticisms to strangers on the internet. That, to me, is not respectful.

My aunt passed away a few years ago now. Her husband will never read this. The rest of the family agrees with me as far as I know. I don't see who I'm disrespecting by publicly and semi-anonymously questioning those decisions in retrospect.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#166

Post by codr7 »

m463 wrote: post #162
fsloth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume the main reason for the controversy is the prevailing dogma "Drugs are evil". This dogma has been used to enact countless bills of legislation in most rich countries, which in turn have encumbered the justice and police system, which in turn have put thousands upon thousands of people into to the correctional system for years. After all that busywork, lives destroyed and taxpayer money wasted, it is really…

On the other hand, knowing first-hand of some screwed up lives plus collateral damage, some drugs might just be evil. Thing is, it's hard to tell in the beginning where things are going so people might lump them all in together.

Maybe, but selling potentially harmful substances to informed adults still shouldn't be illegal. Water is potentially harmful.

And drugs don't exist in a vacuum, you can't take the individual out of the equation and expect meaningful answers.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#167

Post by kortex »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #118
kortex wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's studied the topic quite heavily, here's my issue with no-holds-barred legalization (I consider "legal" to mean "can manufacture and distribute" in this regard, like tobacco). Drugs that couple very tightly to the VTA (brain's behavior-reward circuit) actually can lead to lasting changes after few or single exposures. This is amplified by rapid absorption routes - injection, insufflation and inhalatio…

> The main players here are heroin (DEA sched 1), meth (2), cocaine (2), GHB/Xyrem (3), some benzos (4), tobacco (legal), and analogs therein. It's hard to have a casual habit with these drugs, as they manipulate the brain's behavioral calculus itself. Would caffeine and sugar also fall in this list?

Caffeine, possibly. I have a pretty strong caffeine addiction myself. But the harm level of caffeine vs alcohol, tobacco, or anything else harder, is far far less.

Sugar, no, it doesn't bind to transduction receptors in the same way (it is rewarding, but not like "drugs" are).

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#168

Post by kortex »

Rillen wrote: post #101
kortex wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, if I were slowly dying over the course of weeks, and I were given 50/50 odds: "this wild ameliorate your mortality salience, or break your brain and make you crazy" I'd still take that. Heck, if you're worried about being crazy, you are probably less worried about death.

I would probably prefer a high morphine dose though. Lying in a hospital bed and tripping for the first time might just a little bit crazy. NOT! Saying it should be illegal, i think the current laws are braindead.

Yeah, experiencing that in a hospital cot sounds awful. I believe usually they have some sort of comfortable space for that.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#169

Post by cubix »

wool_gather wrote: post #158
cubix wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My aunt died of cancer a couple of years ago. She took an unorthodox treatment of extremely high doses of marijuana, which her husband encouraged. It was frustrating for the rest of the family since it was impossible to have a coherent and meaningful conversation with her in her final months. My dad and I had some doubt about it, but the decision was entirely in the hands of her husband because she was too inebriated…

Cancer is just a bad illness. I too have had the experience of trying to interact with family members in the terminal stages. Neither of them were using marijuana, and they were often not coherent (when they were even awake). Not to diminish your grief, but your aunt might not have been any more available if she had been using other pain management methods. It's just a terrible, overwhelming thing to happen to the bo…

Unfortunately, there has been quite a few deaths in my family in the last decade, and most were on some form of pain management. They weren't always lucid, but none were as perpetually loopy as my aunt was in the last few months of her life. Someone in the forum accused me of being self-centered for simply mentioning this, but her incoherence did add to my, and particularly, my father's (her brother) grief.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#170

Post by sterlind »

Loeffeldude wrote: post #97
washadjeffmad wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic pain does affect the brain, which we already know has long term physiological and neurodegenerative effects. However, we don't have any evidence that psilocybin causes any lasting harm, especially against cognition. Opiate harm is also not limited to addiction. Overdosing and liver toxicity from (abuse of) prescribed opiates is real and driven by their steep curve of tolerance. Opiate withdrawal for many can…

What about people with HPPD? There are definitely people who have long lasting effects of these drugs. Negative and positive. I have depersonalisation/derealization and anxeity disorder after a bad LSD experience. Would it have been triggered without it? Maybe. But what I do know is that shortly after that experience these problems began. I think this overly positive reporting is harmful. I too used to think that dru…

I developed HPPD at 19 from a combination of a bad 2C-E trip, a bad reaction to an SSRI and cannabis. I stopped all drugs (including the SSRI) and confessed to my psychiatrist, who prescribed me clonazepam. Clonazepam reduced the intensity of the visuals, and after the summer ended I was mostly able to tune out the visual static and focus on my schoolwork. I stopped needing the clonazepam, finished learning to tune out the noise and got on with my life. I also had DP/DR, but that got better with focusing on work and community to rebuild my shattered ego and life.

It was unpleasant but I ultimately came out better than I went in. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but rebuilding worked for me and made me stronger.

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