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Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#161

Post by cad »

beaner wrote: post #7
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

Money + heat

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#162

Post by elcomet »

intotheabyss wrote: post #155
kybernetikos wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the energy required to produce a new gram of gold Gold is valuable because people buy it. People don't buy it because of some hypothetical amount of energy that went into producing it, they buy it mostly because it's shiny and rare (and sometimes because it doesn't corrode much or conducts well). The energy cost to produce is relevant to its price only in so far as it feeds into the supply / demand equation.

If it took little to no effort to get gold, then it wouldn't be valuable. The only reason something like gold is valuable is because it's scarce, and it's scarce because it requires a lot of work to extract. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you are partly right.

Prices depend on supply and demand. Gold is scarce, thus supply is low, and is useful (beautiful, can conduct electricity), thus demand is high.

Bitcoin is scarce, yeah, as it requires a lot of energy to produce it. But it's not really useful for now, people buy it only for speculation. So demand exists, but it might fluctuate a lot.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#163

Post by electrotype »

drcode wrote: post #156
woahAcademia wrote: post #108

I stopped trusting ethereum after EIP669. Ethereum used to have a soft cap of 100M coins. They removed the cap. Ethereum is no Bitcoin. It's more akin to dogecoin/fiat with its infinite money. Hope POS works so Bitcoin can adopt it.

I've been involved with ethereum long before the presale and never once has there been any expectation of a soft cap. Nobody removed a cap. If you don't like an uncapped coin, use Bitcoin and help them figure out how their coin is going to maintain security after the mining rewards start to dwindle.

So, Monero.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#164

Post by diang »

rglullis wrote: post #47
diang wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competing with Bitcoin's TPS in the single digits, high-hundreds/low thousands is a big leap... but still not enough to replace the higher order global currencies. In order to gain the necessary L2 support, they'll have to establish dominance relative to bitcoin with an equally lacking TPS. Seems like a "If they come, we will build it" problem.

Plenty of L2 solutions already exist and can be used with Ethereum already. If your single comparison point is the existing banking and credit card payment networks, you can take a look at e.g, Raiden which is already deployed on mainnet and can scale with the number of the nodes participating in the network. Hundreds of thousands of payment transactions per second are already possible. The main issue is that most of…

I could take a look at e.g, anything... but when you add a caveat of participation, scaling to infinity is inherently possible. If we all chose to do something, we could all do it.

The problem comes with attracting such participation, which isn't warranted without that very participation having already been established.

Carts and horses and such.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#165

Post by lawn »

woahAcademia wrote: post #108

I stopped trusting ethereum after EIP669. Ethereum used to have a soft cap of 100M coins. They removed the cap. Ethereum is no Bitcoin. It's more akin to dogecoin/fiat with its infinite money. Hope POS works so Bitcoin can adopt it.

I stopped supporting Ethereum when they abandoned code is law, and arbitrarily rewrote the rules to protect against the DAO hack.

It's fine to protect against theft, but it's not fine when it's only enforced arbitrarily and only when the core developers themselves are affected.

This is the whole premise behind the irreversibility of cryptocurrencies, that the only fair thing is to never do it, and when you abandon that why not go all the way to a centralized database?

Ethereum is therefore not fit to be a currency, and should be treated as a world computer experiment.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#166

Post by dgrin91 »

newyankee wrote: post #3
drcode wrote: post #2

TLDR; The transition from Eth1->Eth2 requires the following steps: 1. Network operators (stakers) deposit at least 524,288 ETH in a special contract 2. The early Eth2 blockchain (the "beacon chain") launches Dec 1st 3. The Eth1 blockchain will be merged into Eth2 (details TBD) 4. Other features will be added to make Eth2 fully functional (sharding being the biggest feature) Just a few minutes ago, step 1 has been acc…

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

It means orders of magnitude less. The part of the blockchain that proves your transaction was valid is now (oversimplifying here) just a boolean check instead of running a hash algo over and over

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#167

Post by no_wizard »

dmos62 wrote: post #78
brazzy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. Cheap yes, renewable no. Complete non sequitur there. > The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. Absolute insanity straight out of postapocalyptic SF. "The ancients destroyed their civilization by funelling an ever increasing share of re…

>> Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. > Cheap yes, renewable no. Complete non sequitur there. That's the main point. There's no inherent incentive to use clean energy for mining. There's opposite stories about obsolete aluminum plants staying alive in China by just using their energy allocations to mine Bitcoin.

I have to call this out as google didn’t back this claim up readily. Do you have a source? I Cabot believe an aluminum plant could make Enough money off of Bitcoin mining to subsidize its operations like that at first blush.

I’m very interested in reading about it though

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#168

Post by Applejinx »

beaner wrote: post #43
stouset wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building more renewable energy capacity only to have that capacity immediately used to mine Bitcoin rather than replace some existing fossil fuel use is not progress.

I don't see why not. One consequence is investment in renewable efficiency, which applies to the energy industry generally outside of crypto mining specifically. Another consequence is needing something to do with excess energy, which leads to more competition amongst sellers in the grid, making energy cheaper. This does marginally reduce dependence on fossil fuel.

If conversion directly into money through bitcoin is so damn liquid that this is what we're doing, what is this 'excess' energy you're talking about?

In this scenario there is NO SUCH THING as 'excess' energy. Or reducing dependence on fossil fuel, so long as that can still be used to produce energy to mine bitcoin with.

You're right about competition and market dynamics, but it is utterly and completely dedicated to converting ALL the energy into money without any left over. To fail to do so is to fail to be competitive. I really do not understand this talk about 'excess' energy.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#169

Post by Applejinx »

cad wrote: post #161
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

Money + heat

Well put.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#170

Post by leesalminen »

olodus wrote: post #17

I haven't been keeping up with the Eth / PoS development, do we have any preliminary numbers on how much energy this switch is hoped to save? Same goes with sharing, how much is it argued this will speed up the transaction process?

One of the main drivers behind ETH2 is sharding, which will allow for 10,000s txn/sec.
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