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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#161

Post by varispeed »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #123
varispeed wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think it is a joke? Happy to hear why you think 15% is reasonable.

Because by suggesting Apple pay developers to make apps and not the other way around you either don't know history, how markets and distribution work, or you're making a joke. You strategy played out very well in pre 2008 days with Windows Mobile. It also played out very well for Microsoft paying developers to create apps for Windows Phone, before Microsoft admitted defeat and left the phone market they were in since…

This is laughable. You can setup Shopify to sell your physical inventory worldwide plus get an invoicing solution that deals with MOSS etc. for fraction of what Apple charges for hosting a file in an app. Plus they don't allow competing app stores, so they can dictate these extortionate prices.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#162

Post by cwhiz »

andybak wrote: post #153
cwhiz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t a problem exclusive to Apple anymore. Google has implemented some draconian nonsense this year to the point where I ended up distributing my Android app as a PWA. I had no problems with Apple. Apple gets all the headlines, and certainly gets more chatter on HN, but they aren’t alone in this bullshit. As an example... Fortnite was also banned by Google.

> Fortnite was also banned by Google. I think the main reason this wasn't as newsworthy is that sideloading it was trivial for Android users. Untick a warning and install it yourself.

Trivial for you, a reader on HN. Not trivial, and potentially unsafe, for my grandmother.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#163

Post by eecc »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #64
gtsteve wrote: post #21

Looks nice but it doesn't solve my fundamental problem: 1. I invest loads of time and effort developing an app 2. Apple rejects it -or- 2. Apple approves it 3. I ship a new update 4. Apple rejects the update and now decides my app should have been rejected retroactively. I'm especially concerned about what happened to Hey and others but my customers are demanding smartphone apps and there are still limits to what can…

Agree. As a small developer, apples 30% tax never bothered me - seemed excessive but worth it. The arbitrary and weird approval rules is what turned me off their platform. Although I could see how they are trying to appease antitrust regulators with this move - although they should have gone with 0 - 2% range for that. 15% is a substantial markup to price consumers would pay for using apples monopolized mobile softwa…

Imagine the outrage if people learned the markup that distributors make on vegetables and dairy as well as the monopsony power they wield against small farmers!

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#164

Post by the_lucifer »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #29
Aissen wrote: post #15

Weird how this is the exact opposite of Valve's strategy: > For all sales between $10 million and $50 million, the split goes to 25 percent. And for every sale after the initial $50 million, Steam will take just a 20 percent cut. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18120577/valve-steam-gam...

Why weird? 2 different strategies with completely different goals. Valve's strategy looks like to maximise revenue and get big companies on board that do $10+ mil in sales giving them incentives and discounts to be on the platform. (I think of it as tax break to incentivise high-earners to stay in the state/country) Apple's strategy looks like to put more money into small companies/developers, while still charging th…

This I can understand because I'd argue most of the creative uses of Apple's ecosystems rather come from smaller indie developers meanwhile meanwhile larger companies also need to look at cross compatibility and sharing codebases.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#165

Post by toyg »

emdowling wrote: post #130
jclardy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are almost correct - it goes by the prior years income, but based on the 30% cut. Meaning if you sold 1m in products you would still be in the 15% bracket next year. You would need ~1.43m in sales to be "Moved up" the next year (It gets more complicated with subscription revenue already having a 30/15 cut depending on the user's subscription length.) It works out to this (Using 1m in sales as the cutoff to simpli…

Giving Apple the benefit of the doubt here (which is a significant caveat), I'd like to think that they modelled out various scenarios and looked at growth rates to know that the year 3 scenario you envisage rarely occurs. Or, they could've just picked $1 million because it's a nice round number and looks good in a press release.

The latter explanation is the winner. They needed an arbitrary threshold and went for an easy-sounding one.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#166

Post by sercand »

Deukhoofd wrote: post #150
cwhiz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t a problem exclusive to Apple anymore. Google has implemented some draconian nonsense this year to the point where I ended up distributing my Android app as a PWA. I had no problems with Apple. Apple gets all the headlines, and certainly gets more chatter on HN, but they aren’t alone in this bullshit. As an example... Fortnite was also banned by Google.

For Android there are at the very least alternatives for app distribution.

For a B2C app, if we are not on the default distribution platform of the system, our user acquisition costs would be skyrocketed.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#167

Post by zmk_ »

forest_dweller wrote: post #102
jakozaur wrote: post #19

Great move! 30% is a case for antitrust given how big Apple App Store today is. 15% seems reasonable, 10% would be ideal. Though it should be 15% for everybody, no artificial caps. Moreover, I believe once you become a platform there should be an independent nano-courthouse where you can appeal. Today being rejected by Apple, Amazon, or Google platform is equivalent to the economical death penalty for many individual…

> 30% is a case for antitrust given how big Apple App Store today is. 15% seems reasonable, 10% would be ideal. Not it isn't a case for anti-trust. 70/30 split whether people on here like it or not is a standard agreement for these types of business relationship. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut... The judge in the case agreed. > Judge says the 30% rate is the industry rate— references Ste…

It's only standard as Apple was first through the gate with this scheme for online marketplaces. They got to copy the split from brick-and-mortar (without the accompanying costs like restocking) and everyone else followed suit.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#168

Post by aflag »

alexgmcm wrote: post #80
martin-adams wrote: post #75

So if I read this right, they're changing the account fee structure once revenue surpasses $1m, not that they charge 30% on all new revenue over $1m. It doesn't reset back to 15% in year two. So a developer making $1,000,001 in year 1 will pay ~$150,000 in fees because they would just pass the threshold, but then makes $1,000,001 in year 2 will pay ~$300,000. As a developer and growing business, I think I'd prefer a…

Yeah, economically a marginal rate would make more sense and avoid hard step changes. But I guess it might be harder to implement, not only for Apple, but also for developers to keep track of etc.

It seems to me that trying to either stay under $1M or above $1.4M is harder to manage than using a slightly more complicated formula to calculate apple's tax.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#169

Post by risyachka »

sercand wrote: post #152
gtsteve wrote: post #21

Looks nice but it doesn't solve my fundamental problem: 1. I invest loads of time and effort developing an app 2. Apple rejects it -or- 2. Apple approves it 3. I ship a new update 4. Apple rejects the update and now decides my app should have been rejected retroactively. I'm especially concerned about what happened to Hey and others but my customers are demanding smartphone apps and there are still limits to what can…

At least review process is better than Google's because when we rejected on Play Store we can't get any feedback from Google. They send a template email which says the "problem maybe A or B, check what you have changed". Apple provides screenshots and human written explanation on rejection. I have even talked on the phone with review team several times to discuss the problem. Yes, it sucks that the update may be reje…

It was better indeed, now it is worse. Now Google sends you screenshots and explains what is wrong and Apple just quotes like a dumb bot their policy (which is not even acceptable in many cases)

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#170

Post by risyachka »

gtsteve wrote: post #21

Looks nice but it doesn't solve my fundamental problem: 1. I invest loads of time and effort developing an app 2. Apple rejects it -or- 2. Apple approves it 3. I ship a new update 4. Apple rejects the update and now decides my app should have been rejected retroactively. I'm especially concerned about what happened to Hey and others but my customers are demanding smartphone apps and there are still limits to what can…

Same story.

As long as they treat big companies like royalty and small devs like trash (like they do now) I couldn't care less about their fee.

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