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Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

medievalists.net

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Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#161

Post by dragonelite »

agency wrote: post #46
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

The more I hear about this feudalism thing the less I like it.

The shitty thing is the west is gradually moving into neo feudalism, like the World Economic Forum said "You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy".

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#162

Post by questionfor »

defen wrote: post #112

One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…

I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#163

Post by brazzy »

damnencryption wrote: post #64
ynac wrote: post #42

It makes one wonder how the modern equals would do? Yes, we have street fights / protests between "soldiers" and pedestrians. Each equipped with their standard tools - lopsided as they may be. The question becomes more of a matter of context for a modern battle. What is a modern knight and what is a modern peasant in 2020 and also, what locale? (We could also use a booklist for this discussion - I keep bringing back…

I wonder if modern peasants can fight and win against the knights. You can't own a knife in many countries without a license let alone a gun. It's all tracked. There are targeted missiles, drones, autonomous guns, surveillance, radar, bombs, tear gas, tasers, tanks, bullet and knife proof clothing, exoskeleton, etc available to the knights. Knights are many times more organized than they have ever been in history. Re…

> You can't own a knife in many countries without a license

What kind of bullshit propaganda is that? There isn't a single country in the world that requires a license to "own a knife".

> let alone a gun. It's all tracked. There are targeted missiles, drones, autonomous guns, surveillance, radar, bombs, tear gas, tasers, tanks, bullet and knife proof clothing, exoskeleton, etc available to the knights.

However, there's a lots of things relatively freely available to peasants that can be turned into a bomb capable of killing any knight who's not in a tank. And even a tank can have a bad time in a city full of hostile peasants.

> Knights are many times more organized than they have ever been in history.

This is a the big one. Organization really matters to make the technological advantage count. And it ivolves knowing in what situations that advantage wouldn't work well, and avoiding them.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#164

Post by questionfor »

jacobolus wrote: post #135
zrobotics wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge thing is mindset- one thing the Total War series got extremely right was shock value and the ability to win battles by routing opponents. Getting charged with a horse would be terrifying (speaking from semi-experience, I've been charged by both bull moose and cattle). Nevermind the animal also having someone on top of it armed to the teeth, I can easily understand running away in terror. From my amateur research…

My impression is that chivalry was more about relations between nobles than anything to do with peasants. Feudal lords have pretty much always taken whatever liberties they like with the local people: rape, theft, property destruction, murder, torture, kidnapping, ... Medieval knights were little different than the thug soldiers of any modern criminal gang, except less checked by state power.

Barbara Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror” portrays feudal wars as essentially raids to kill some of your neighbor’s peasants rather than your neighbor (who was most likely your relative)

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#165

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

lb1lf wrote: post #152
agency wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I hear about this feudalism thing the less I like it.

-Fun fact: Feudalism (somehow) lingered on until about a decade ago on the channel island of Sark. That being said, aside from the dubious principle, 21st century feudalism on Sark had little in common with its medieval cousin.

Which makes sense given that it started with the settlement of the island by Helier de Carteret in 1565, well after feudalism in England was on the way out.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#166

Post by varjag »

questionfor wrote: post #162
defen wrote: post #112

One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…

I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor

Horse is a large animal IRL, killing it or even seriously injuring with a blade is not trivial. And when there's a knight with a lance or a longsword on top, you might not even get one shot at it.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#167

Post by questionfor »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #43
fencepost wrote: post #12

Mindset would likely have played a big part, and battle then vs battle now were very different things. A peasant could absolutely kill a knight but probably not in battle, and the opportunity to do so would be unlikely to arise because the knight would probably not be in a position to be ambushed. For most peasantry the very thought of going after a knight would also be almost unimaginable. Seems like a not-unreasona…

Wouldn't a more apt comparison be someone armed with a 9mm pistol trying to take on a trained soldier with advanced anti-ballstic armor and plating, and an accurate rifle?

with an airsoft gun probably :)

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#168

Post by watwut »

questionfor wrote: post #162
defen wrote: post #112

One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…

I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor

You can leave the horse behind and continue by walk if you think it gives you advantage. The speed and maneuverability here is not just about during combat, but mostly about ability to do long term plan and maneuver.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#169

Post by questionfor »

recuter wrote: post #28
derefr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lazy knight That might be possible , but is it likely? A knight is basically a medieval super-soldier: an individual with a huge amount of ongoing personal+state investment going into their ability to project power on the field. Even if they're also a feudal lord who lives within their own holdings (and therefore someone who's not beholden to anyone around them, only to a distant king) everyone working for them is…

Nope, there were a lot of fat and/or incompetent knights. I assure you.

On the other hand participating (and surviving) in just one real battle would set the knight miles above anyone who is just physically strong from working the land.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#170

Post by Sander_Marechal »

questionfor wrote: post #162
defen wrote: post #112

One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…

I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor

Being the target of a cavalry charge is absolutely terrifying even for hardened soldiers. There is very little chance of fighting effectively when everyone around you is fleeing or being pressed together. And you're being charged by a 2-ton armored war machine. Or dozens of them. I'm a reenactor. It's even terrifying when you know it's fake and you know you're safe.

Knights did loose horses though. They all took multiple war horses with them to battle (a "lance" usually consisted of one knight, multiple warhorses and a regular horse for travel/supplies and several servants). When they lost their horse, they fought their way back to their own side and got on the next horse.

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