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Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

medrxiv.org

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Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#161

Post by danaris »

fasteo wrote: post #105
simonh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure as you say critical illness with long term medical effects is known to have this impact. The difference is that, as the abstract points out, substantial cognitive impairment in Covid patients was found even in people who displayed mild symptoms and were never critically ill.

Fair point. I missed that part. Thanks. Now we should also research if viral infections in general have an association to cognitive deficit. I guess this will be the case.

Based on what I understand about COVID, I suspect it would be more informative to research if inflammatory diseases in general have such an association.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#162

Post by djsumdog »

baxtr wrote: post #36

What I’m wondering: people talk about long term effects and we have 9-10 months of data. I remember I had a cold couple of years back and couldn’t taste nor smell for 3 months or so. What about long term effects for people who have gone through other diseases like the flu for example?

It's just way to early for us to be talking about "longer term" effects. In my 20s, I remember it took nearly a month to recovery from pneumonia. I was lucky. Another friend of mine got pneumonia from a viral infection and was out three months and had to take an Incomplete on all his classes for the semester.

All infections have the potential for permanent effects, but they're often not common. An interesting example is Lymes Disease. We still don't understand long term Lymes, but for some reason, the immune system continues to react long after the infection is gone.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#163

Post by nicwolff »

dempseye wrote: post #46
minitech wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“not in substantial” :)

This is a very English way of expressing oneself.

It's the rhetorical figure called "litotes" and has been common in many languages now and throughout linguistic history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#164

Post by bamboozled »

diu7sieQuee9jai wrote: post #63
neuronic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are unable to worry about or comprehend the effects that happen right NOW. I am a staunch believer in post-viral syndrome as I experienced it first hand following an Epstein-Barr infection (mono) but aside from a handful of researchers nobody cares at all. For most physicians, it isn't even within the realm of possibilities when you come to them with random maladies. Boom, now you have anxiety because that's w…

I have been dealing with something that sounds very much like what you describe. It started a few years ago. At the moment it is manageable. I've been in and out of many many doctors' offices. Bloodworks actually indicated a recent (but past) EBV infection, that's why your post rang bells with me. Would you have pointers to how to nail this down? Introductory material or such? I have to say I really feel your descrip…

I was diagnosed with depersonalization when I was a teenager suffering from severe anxiety and depression. Sounds. Exactly the same.

Especially the bit about doctors telling you that you’re ok but that you don't want to accept it. This sounds like hypochondria?

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#165

Post by danaris »

bamboozled wrote: post #149
ineedasername wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please note that according to this study people who weren't critically ill still had cognitive deficits. Otherwise: Yes, other illnesses can have similar effects. Now we have another illness that piles more people on top of that. It adds to the number of people who get critically ill. It's not that Covid is worse than some other health problems, it's that Covid's impact is in addition to the ones that existed.

So COVID-19 is a special “brain wrecking” virus ?

From what I've read (mostly from articles linked here on HN), the problem with COVID-19 is that it is highly inflammatory (in the medical sense, not just the conversational one!).

The brain really doesn't do well with inflammation.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#166

Post by fasteo »

DennisP wrote: post #128
fasteo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. I missed that part. Thanks. Now we should also research if viral infections in general have an association to cognitive deficit. I guess this will be the case.

I would be quite surprised if a cold or mild flu caused a cognitive deficit equivalent to ten years of aging, persisting after recovery.

Influenza has been shown to cause transient (3 months) cognitive deficit in some patients.

I am not implying that Covid-19 is like a flu - it is not - but I think it is not so different from other viruses to induce never before seen symptoms.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#167

Post by ljw1001 »

djsumdog wrote: post #159
simonh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure as you say critical illness with long term medical effects is known to have this impact. The difference is that, as the abstract points out, substantial cognitive impairment in Covid patients was found even in people who displayed mild symptoms and were never critically ill.

This seems like a large sample size, with the administration being a test. With the pure psychological and fear impacts of this on the world, not the mention the vast majority of people with severe cases being over 55 (people older than 65 have the potential for complications from ANY infection, viral or bacterial) ... I don't think there's a way to accurately account for the placebo/nocebo/mass-hysteria effects of t…

While opinions differ on appropriate action, with some arguing for strong policy responses, there’s very little evidence of anything that merits the word “hysteria”

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#168

Post by milesvp »

ardy42 wrote: post #91
rfrey wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly for what HN calls "middlebrow dismissal" - wandering in and dismissing the article with blindingly obvious issues ("probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization" etc) as if professional medical researchers wouldn't have thought of them. They plainly need a clear-eyed HN reader on staff to help them.

> Possibly for what HN calls "middlebrow dismissal" - wandering in and dismissing the article with blindingly obvious issues ("probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization" etc) as if professional medical researchers wouldn't have thought of them. They plainly need a clear-eyed HN reader on staff to help them. That term is very apt. I found this blog post about it, which I think really hits the nail on the head,…

That last paragraph was oddly hard for me to parse this morning, possibly because I havn’t thought enough about this aspect of confirmation bias.

Be conciencious when dismissing something that’s inconsistent with your world view, seems like very good advice, at least if the source is credible.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#169

Post by simonh »

djsumdog wrote: post #159
simonh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure as you say critical illness with long term medical effects is known to have this impact. The difference is that, as the abstract points out, substantial cognitive impairment in Covid patients was found even in people who displayed mild symptoms and were never critically ill.

This seems like a large sample size, with the administration being a test. With the pure psychological and fear impacts of this on the world, not the mention the vast majority of people with severe cases being over 55 (people older than 65 have the potential for complications from ANY infection, viral or bacterial) ... I don't think there's a way to accurately account for the placebo/nocebo/mass-hysteria effects of t…

I don't even know what mass hysteria is supposed to mean. It conjures visions of people running screaming in the street tearing their clothes off. I suppose the nearest we've had so far were panics such as mass buying of toilet paper and cleaning products.

We've had serious problems with mass delusions such as ant-vax, chem trails and pizza-gate propagating through social media since long before Covid. Of course now there are similar memetic contagions that are Covid related such as the 5G conspiracy theories, but crazies have got to crazy. If they weren't crazying about this they'd be crazying about something else.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#170

Post by gambiting »

dhimes wrote: post #126
fasteo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. I missed that part. Thanks. Now we should also research if viral infections in general have an association to cognitive deficit. I guess this will be the case.

I haven't heard of it with the flu.

ANY virus infection can do this. I've had a human Parvovirus B19 infection last year - infection which is mild to zero symptoms in most adults, but in fewer than 5% it causes serious complications, some of them life long. Well, unfortunately it looks like I'm in this second group as I'm still struggling with some issues over a year later(reactive arthritis for which I'm getting steroid injections) - and the best the doctors could tell me "yep, it can happen with any virus infection, sorry".
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