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Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

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Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#161

Post by 627467 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

I guess if you remove all other data points/context and only stick with the words "jobless" and "living with parents" I guess "so what" is a valid question. It would be a valid question for most issues where ones has barely any other information.

But if you read a little about the price that japan (and this demographic in particular) has been paying and what they think about it, I'm pretty sure you won't find anyone asking "so what".

Your point on how USA (and other countries) should be making better use of their living arrangements is valid. I don't think it compares to the situation Japan or most deeply densed urbanized countries in Asia.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#162

Post by michaelt »

rib3ye wrote: post #41
brazzy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how economy works. There is no such thing in general as "too many people for the economy". "The economy" is the sum of goods and services produced and consumed. Everyone who lives consumes, and could easily consume more. The economy is generally limited by the ability to produce, and is generally limited by the number of working-age people to do the producing. Unemployment can be result of production being…

Like others having lived there for a short period of time, I agree with this observation. The cultural premium on risk, that may merely inconvenience someone, is unreasonably high (by my standard, anyway). Ever have to pay a bribe to a landlord to rent an apartment as a matter of accepted business protocol? Look up "reikin". Then you'll realize why some think it's totally reasonable to live out of an internet cafe.

Loads of countries have something functionally equivalent to reikin - just they call it a "background check fee" or "credit check fee" or "administration charge" or "inventory fee"

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#163

Post by gfxgirl »

tasogare wrote: post #158
gfxgirl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a bribe. That's your negative spin. The positive spin is it's just 2/26th pre-payment of the rent for 2 years. You then pay 1/26th every month for 2 years, repeat when you renew your contract. Do I like having to pay 2/26th up front (2 months rent?) no. But I also would prefer not to have to put down payments on cars/houses.

You are wrong. Those fees are added to the normal rent, they are not part of it. I choose my current appartment in part because there was no additional "gift money" to pay. Each time one moves place those have to be paid, which makes moving quite costly.

I'm not wrong. Different apartments give different offers just like everything else in the world.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#164

Post by Animats »

roenxi wrote: post #2

The things that stand out to me about Japan: * 3rd largest economy. * 11th largest population (top 10 until recently, they basically tie with Mexico). * If you look at a table of countries by area, they are there. Even in the top half, thanks to places like Tuvalu. I think there is a very strong on-the-face-of-it argument that they just have too many people and not enough for them to do, economically speaking. If the…

The population of Japan is shrinking. A lot. The population peaked in 2011 and is down about 2 million since then. Outside of Tokyo, Osaka, and Nagoya, Japan is emptying out. Japan does not have too many people.

India, though...

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#165

Post by tasogare »

gfxgirl wrote: post #69

A friend of mine works at Amazon Japan. She's working 10-12 hrs a day, 6 days week. She gets paid no overtime. AFAIK that's illegal in Japan but here Amazon is doing it.

Not a big news, Amazon is a crap company exploiting its workers worldwide and creating a lot of externalities. If the practice is illegal, an employee could sue (and win) but that personal choice.

On the 10-12 hours, the concept of "work" in Japan is a big different than in the West, in particular because there seems to have almost no notion of productivity. I often see 4 people on a task that would be allocated to one worker in Europe, or 12 person cleaning the same square meter. That combined with perfectionism (again, with no notion of productivity) that if 1% improvement can be done with 300% effort they try to do it, is a perfect cocktail to raise the total "worked" hours.

And finally there is the bureaucracy. Today I spoke with someone about implementing an idea, where the implementation of the idea is literally sending an email. I spend 10 minutes explaining it. But that could not be done directly! No, that person need to consult her boss. How long this will take? Probably at least half an hour... 2 or 3 times more if there is back and forth with me through the intermediate person. How many "worked" hours does this represent in total? I plan on a least one man/hour. In my country: doing the task directly, which represents at least a 120 times better productivity...

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#166

Post by marrianeKK »

sirspacey wrote: post #156

The article clearly identifies the source of this challenge: HR culture I’ve worked in HR in the US. To say it is unbearably broken doesn’t begin to cover it. Japan’s rigid hiring rituals are specific but I’ve encountered quite a bit of rigidity in HR culture in the US as well. As we see nearly daily here on HN, the “filter process” HR uses is highly resistant to change and based on traditions that are objectively us…

>The article clearly identifies the source of this challenge: HR culture

I don't think so. I don't think the problem here is companies struggling to find the right people. It seems to me that companies have slashed hiring. There are too few regular job positions and too many people seeking them.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#167

Post by benrbray »

function_seven wrote: post #153
maerF0x0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?

I suppose if you polled people in this situation, and just asked them, "Is this the life you want to live?", that would answer the your question. I don't know what the results would be, but I can guess that a large percentage of unemployed 30- and 40-somethings living with their parents would very much rather not be. Is it 10%, 35%, 65%? I'm guessing over 50% to be sure. You can argue that the society is set up wrong…

Playing devil's advocate, how many Americans would truthfully respond "yes" to the same question, "Is this the life you want to live?".

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#168

Post by cryptica »

I don't think it's a coincidence that Japan has the highest debt-to-GDP ratio and also the largest number of jobless youth living with their parents.

Debt fueled by inflationary government money-printing drives wealth inequality between asset owners and salary earners. Newly printed currency boosts asset prices and inflates away salaries.

As Milton Friedman pointed out, it also increases the tax burden on citizens two-fold because inflation causes salary earners to be pushed into higher tax brackets over time as some of their salaries are eventually negotiated upwards to offset inflation.

My guess is that it has something to do with what happened in 1971 when the US dollar (and all currencies which were pegged to it) moved off of the gold standard. This was the time when asset values started inflating. This is why it only affected millennials and they could not afford their own house.

Japan took on more public debt than any other country which is why they felt this effect more strongly since they ended up having to print their national currency at a higher rate (thus resulting in worse asset-inflation) in order to pay off the interest on their debt.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#169

Post by chc »

saagarjha wrote: post #148
maerF0x0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?

It's just not sustainable if everyone did this. The economy needs people who are gainfully employed and not single and living with their parents. I say this as someone who is single and currently living with my parents.

That is actually not a problem. It's not sustainable if everyone is a full-time chef — that doesn't mean being a full-time chef is bad. The problem here is that these people are in a disadvantaged and unsatisfying position in society with no clear way out.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#170

Post by T-R »

kiliancs wrote: post #106
jhanschoo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A partial answer: Googling 'japan fax' would give you many articles attesting that faxes are still a stable for communication in offices. e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-ja... > Japan’s health ministry has said it will allow health centres to report new coronavirus cases online, instead of by handwritten faxes, after a doctor lambasted the legal requirement. Another very externally visi…

I appreciate this is a partial answer, but by those standards the US is also similarly behind. For example, still commonly use checks and they are nowhere near transitioning to the metric system.

While I don't think Japan should be judged solely on its fax machines (they're ahead in some places and behind in others), there is a difference with fax machine usage in Japan vs the US - they're a trailing indicator of another bottleneck. Fax machines are so widespread in Japan largely because they ease the process of physically stamping documents with a registered stamp (a hanko), which is used instead of a signature. So far they've failed to digitize them, and it's often cited as a huge cause of bureaucratic slowdown, especially in the pandemic. One of the goals of the new prime minister is to finally start phasing them out.
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