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You're enlightened – now what?

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Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#161

Post by alexmingoia »

The idea of enlightenment as a vague loosely-defined “I know it when I see it” phenomena is mostly a western “new age” cultural misappropriation of Buddhist teaching.

Enlightenment is well-defined and described in detail by the Buddhist cannon. You can call “enlightenment” whatever you want, but Buddha taught a specific conception of enlightenment and a specific path to achieving it.

The Tripitaka describes enlightenment proceeding in four stages (SN 22.122), with each stage defined by the abandonment of some of the ten fetters (SN 45.179 and 45.180) which bind us to samsara. Once the ten fetters are conquered one has reached the final stage of enlightenment and will be liberated from the cycle of rebirth (nirvana).

The Tripitaka describes each fetter in detail and how to overcome them. The process of enlightenment is fairly systematic (eightfold path).

The ten fetters are:

1. Self identity view (sakkaya ditthi)

2. Sceptical doubt (vicikicca)

3. Attachment to mere rites and rituals (silabbata paramasa)

4. Sensual desire (kama raga)

5. Ill-will (patigha)

6. Desire to be born in fine material worlds (rupa raga)

7. Desire to be born in formless worlds (arupa raga)

8. Conceit (mana)

9. Restlessness (uddacca)

10. Ignorance (avijja)

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#162

Post by _5659 »

I'll say this as a somewhat devout Buddhist. If you're asking yourself "now what?" after you're supposedly enlightened, you ain't enlightened.

The ultimate takeaway from enlightenment I understand to be true is that if you can be enlightened, it is superior to abandon enlightenment for yourself in service of others to be come enlightened.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#164

Post by [deleted] »

cvaidya1986 wrote: post #95
dwaltrip wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m not absolutely sure. I’d love to learn how I might be wrong. But I feel pretty good about the idea. Do you have any concrete theories of how a human can _fully_ understand the entire universe?

Sure, reduce it to an abstraction where the part and the whole converge

[deleted]

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#165

Post by [deleted] »

cvaidya1986 wrote: post #95
dwaltrip wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m not absolutely sure. I’d love to learn how I might be wrong. But I feel pretty good about the idea. Do you have any concrete theories of how a human can _fully_ understand the entire universe?

Sure, reduce it to an abstraction where the part and the whole converge

[deleted]

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#166

Post by rosstex »

cheezymoogle wrote: post #119

Here's a story. Imagine a jigsaw puzzle. But not any jigsaw puzzle. An unbelievably huge jigsaw puzzle that's been mixed up with other jigsaw puzzles. Some of them are really old and faded. Some of them are brand new. Some are larger and some are smaller. The edges change from jagged to smooth. Like everyone else at the table, you've been trying to put this one puzzle together for years, trying out numberless pieces…

It boggles me that you have only posted this within the depths of HN comments. Delightful.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#167

Post by dwaltrip »

cvaidya1986 wrote: post #95
dwaltrip wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m not absolutely sure. I’d love to learn how I might be wrong. But I feel pretty good about the idea. Do you have any concrete theories of how a human can _fully_ understand the entire universe?

Sure, reduce it to an abstraction where the part and the whole converge

You would lose information in the process of constructing any abstraction.

You can't compute the next tick of the entire universe using a process that is contained within it. That would be like saying a single page of a book can contain the entirety of the book (without changing the size of the letters, obviously). It doesn't fit.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#168

Post by jessedhillon »

alexmingoia wrote: post #161

The idea of enlightenment as a vague loosely-defined “I know it when I see it” phenomena is mostly a western “new age” cultural misappropriation of Buddhist teaching. Enlightenment is well-defined and described in detail by the Buddhist cannon. You can call “enlightenment” whatever you want, but Buddha taught a specific conception of enlightenment and a specific path to achieving it. The Tripitaka describes enlighten…

This detail addresses none of the questions raised in the post. Either escaping these ten fetters confers a detachment from the world such that one no longer needs to change it, or one wants to share this state with the world and then has to grapple with those challenges identified in the post.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#169

Post by pontifier »

Liquix wrote: post #11

Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…

I have felt a great sense of enlightened several times in the past. It's most similar to the feeling of flow while programming... When you're juggling all the pieces of a big question and somehow they all slot into place. Everything just makes sense, but it's easily disrupted.

It's impossible for me to maintain for long, but I do my best to collect takeaways while I can.

Mostly what comes back with me are cheesy phrases like "just do your best" or "everything will be ok". Occasionally I come back with some type of specific insights about how to approach a problem that has been causing me problems or newfound motivation to persevere.

Occasionally I think about starting a cult afterward, but I really just want to collect kind, intelligent and motivated people around me. Would that really be so bad?

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#170

Post by bodhiwatva »

earthboundkid wrote: post #143
Barrin92 wrote: post #130

Very scattered post. I guess the confusion about enlightenment these days is grounded in the conflict between the actual traditional concept and the way spiritual practises have been sold as a sort of productivity booster pack for knowledge workers. In many religious traditions enlightenment is nothing less than the annihilation of the self or something of the sort. It's a proper recognition or awareness of one's own…

Buddhism is politically quietist traditionally, but Abrahamic religions are politically activist, so Western reception of Buddhism requires transforming it into “engaged” Buddhism. It’s hard for someone raised in the West to look at Nazis and just shrug and say that they can only kill the body but not the soul, but that is more or less what Buddhists before 1800 would say.

Are you aware that a sect of Theravada Buddhism has been perpetuating genocide against the Rohingya population of Myanmar for almost 5 years now?

How about the dozens of self-immolations performed by Tibetan Buddhists to protest China's annexation of their homeland?

Honestly, it's hard not to think of Buddhism as a religion which is traditionally politically activist. Wasn't Siddhartha himself a wealthy prince who only left his life of comfort and privilege after being shocked by the injustice and pain that he saw when he stepped out of his ivory tower?

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