We use Google hangouts at work and it.... works just fine. What is the big deal about Zoom?
Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
161–170 of 230 posts
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#162I don't buy it. The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other.
I am still confused how Zoom ended up being used this much, especially by less technical people. The UI is not intuitive at all, the options are a mess, and the product doesn't even know what audience it's trying to cater for. Every other Zoom call I've been in someone is having a technical error or confusion (even technically-inclined people). That considered, at least in principle, it shouldn't be that hard for a c…
Jitsi meet is open source and self hostable, or use their server.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
And unlike many other services, the network effect is quite low because I can easily install multiple video conferencing software or even run some in the browser. If someone organising a meeting asks to use something unusual, I'm normally not that bothered.
My wife sees doctors at four different clinics. Each has chosen a different remote meeting solution. It's non-negotiable - to see your doctor remotely, you need to use their software. And that's just in one field. I'm not concerned about Zoom monopoly at all.
I think this was your point but yea, I'd be more concerned that access to your doctor is contingent upon installing a specific proprietary software and accepting that software's terms of use. That's like a doctor saying you can only visit them if you drive there in a Chevrolet.
I can call my doctor using any phone I like, and E-mail her using any E-mail client I like. It is beyond unreasonable to require a patient to install specific client software in order to access care.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#164BS, people use what works, it's just video calls. What I find most bizarre is why zoom is on top, this is probably a lesson in how powerful marketing and timing can be for some types of products... But as a counter example: everyone at my company has ended up using google meets, just because through trial and error it fails the least and is the easiest for everyone to get into. The last time I tried zoom for an exter…
> BS, people use what works, it's just video calls. It's not "just video calls". It's nonfree software belonging to a large for-profit company with huge power of developers over users. It will not end well. It's not the first time it happens. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor...
I think what he meant was that most users of zoom just see it as reasonably easy way to get into a video call with multiple people that just works (for the most part).
If jitsi scaled just as well as zoom and used the same amount of client-side resources, nearly everyone would use that instead. There's nothing to install so people would barely even know hey were using a platform
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#165I don't buy it. The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other.
Not having used zoom, what does it do that the open source, self hostable jitsi meet does not? I feel that jitsi for some unbeknownst reason is ignored in favour of zoom, but don't understand why.
I'm a big fan of jitsi, but I think it's a bit less efficient on resources, particularly with meetings with a lot of participants, although I haven't tried this personally.
Also, Zoom's network effect. A lot of people simply aren't aware of jitsi.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#166The fact that people are being evicted after not using Zoom https://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2020/spring/trial-by-proprietar... is insane. The industrial revolution and all of its consequences may not have been exclusively a disaster for the human race, and I personally don’t share Bill Joy’s fears of mass extinction https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/ , but proprietary software can cause serious problems for members of…
> The industrial revolution and all of its consequences may not have been exclusively a disaster for the human race
for those unaware, this is based from the first line from Ted Kaczynski's "Unabomber Manifesto", which starts with "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race".
It's actually an interesting read, that is... as long as you don't feel hostility towards rebelious literature: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab...
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#167I don't buy it. The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other.
> The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. Did you hear about network effect?
Earlier this year, the network (critical mass of users) adopted Zoom quite quickly. If Zoom were to fail, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that networks or groups of users could start using some other video conference system in a similarly short time-frame. I'm not inclined to share the same level of concern as the original article.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#168I don't buy it. The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other.
Our NYC school tried to make a quick switch from zoom to google meet when zoom was having issues with people porn bombing meetings. It was not a smooth transition and took over a week before we saw all the teachers and kids on it. The kids and teachers were already using google classroom for all other communication so I can only imagine how the transition would have been if they had to setup new accounts.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#169I laughed out loud while reading this article. The author sees some things so correctly, while completely missing the forest for the trees. Author: A single California-based company, Zoom, is now the foundation for education access from elementary school up through graduate school. Me: Hah. The 'foundation' for education for the last 100 years has been the US Government, which exerts so much power over the entire sys…
The US Government is representative of all voting American citizens, you cannot compare it to a private company that is run by people who are not elected.
I agree.
The US Government is pretty impervious to change. For example, people still get arrested for smoking weed. Most o America supports decriminalizing weed.
Why is it still illegal? Shouldn't the government enact policies that most of America agrees with?
I mean... don't most of us agree that if a private company were doing any of this stuff, they would lose all their customers ASAP:
- https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/judge-child-porn...
- https://www.reddit.com/r/baltimore/comments/5jt6k0/where_the...
- https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/sterling-correct...
- https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/156988-obama-nsa-discl...
- https://reason.com/2017/04/25/a-man-died-in-jail-after-getti...
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/what-happe...
I believe the burden of proof is on someone who thinks the US Government is a good representative of it's people.
Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other. I think it's for real. Think about elementary school instead. The kids are just learning to use computers. Their parents may be also, and if not they may be trying to do their own work fr…
This would be a large inconvenience and a disruption, but that doesn't justify one private company being considered critical infrastructure. This view is generally antithetical to innovation. Even if everyone already knows how to use Microsoft Office, it can and should be replaced if better software comes along.
To be fair, Excel is pretty much critical infrastructure at this point.