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Being OK with not being extraordinary

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Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#161

Post by ornornor »

mettamage wrote: post #126
syndacks wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do you do leverage these strengths? What is your goal? I identify with the parent comment here, (the parent of that too) and feel like I've reached a point where the most obvious answer to your question (on leveraging strengths) is management. If you can code, project manage, and communicate effectively with [non]tech people and don't mind the stress of dealing with other people's issues, then it might be up you…

Say if that were true (as it might be), one doesn't just go into project management. There is no company who'd hire me as that as I have no prior experience in it.

No but if you have a job right. Ow you can take in PM responsibilities on top of your current work. After 6–12 months you have PM experience you can parlay into a PM job.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#162

Post by nicbou »

rvn1045 wrote: post #86

The internet has made everyone feel inadequate as it's easy to compare yourself to people you see on the internet. Couple of things to keep in mind if your comparing yourself: 1. There aren't as many uber successful people out there as the internet makes it seem. It's far fewer than you think. Lets take a simple example of dudes who go to the gym and are strong. Instagram makes it seem like all dudes bench press 400…

University also taught me that some people are genuinely better than me. I'm a much happier person since I learned to let it be so.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#163

Post by robviren »

mettamage wrote: post #94
wjossey wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my career so far in a nutshell. I’m an average programmer. I’m an excellent problem solver. I have an above average work ethic. I’m an excellent communicator. Basically, I combined all of these traits and found roles that leveraged these traits to maximize my impact. Not for nothing, but this is why my liberal arts college was profoundly impactful for me, despite not getting a “top tier” CS education. My writ…

How do you do leverage these strengths? I have a somewhat similar profile and I simply feel like a fish judged by its ability to climb a tree. Yet, I: - Help with hiring/marketing/leading scrum sessions (when the actual scrum master is ill) - Conduct pentests - Do the frontend and backend (what I was hired to do) If they'd let me, I'd help with the writing efforts as well as my writing ability is better than that of…

Sounds like you might want to try out being a product manager. I'm a sub par engineer, but I think my diverse skills worked out pretty well for a PM job.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#164

Post by ska »

borroka wrote: post #132
ska wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you are looking at this the wrong way. Someone who is average at a number of things is probably a decent generalist; valuable but not particularly are. But the argument is being above average in two or more areas can make you as impactful as being top of your field in one area, even though you are nowhere near that talented in any different field. Even with your example, I would counter that a huge number o…

A decent generalist that nobody may want, though. You are right that "successful in data scientist roles would not be successful (or at least, much less so) either as programmers or statisticians", assuming they do not train a bit more and become better statisticians (a subject in which world-class experts have wildly different opinions about the very foundations of the field) or programmers (a 1X, say). What I had m…

  A decent generalist that nobody may want, though.
Right - but I think that pretty clearly wasn't what he was talking about.

I don't love Adam's formulation, but it is close to something real.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#165

Post by outworlder »

wjossey wrote: post #66
umvi wrote: post #2

> Climbing to a higher vantage point can also unlock new forms of extraordinary that you might have never noticed before. I read an article once about how the amount of work to get into the top tier in a single area is astronomical, but the amount of work to become top tier in a combination of 2-3 fields is attainable by almost anyone. For example, becoming a top tier statistician is hard. But becoming a top tier sta…

This is my career so far in a nutshell. I’m an average programmer. I’m an excellent problem solver. I have an above average work ethic. I’m an excellent communicator. Basically, I combined all of these traits and found roles that leveraged these traits to maximize my impact. Not for nothing, but this is why my liberal arts college was profoundly impactful for me, despite not getting a “top tier” CS education. My writ…

I suspect that also goes for products as well.

An iPod

A phone

An internet communicator

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#166

Post by PaulStatezny »

thelean12 wrote: post #65

There are lots of people reacting to the extraordinary with "inspiration", "disappointment", and "jealousy". I'd say none of these are as useful as reacting with curiosity . There's an endless amount to learn from the extraordinary in any field or sport or hobby. It's easy to write off the extraordinary as naturally talented or lucky or something else surface level. Most of the time it's anything but. I play golf. It…

Disclaimer: I ask this to explore the truth in your comment, not to be pedantic about your choice of terms.

> Curiosity is the only emotion I've found that's sustainable.

It jumped out at me that curiosity technically isn't an emotion, but might be better labeled a state of mind. So the natural follow-up question for me is: What are some ways to help oneself get in that state of mind?

The professor that taught my "logic" class in college would say that feelings and actions come about as a result of _beliefs_. So what kinds of beliefs lead to feeling inspired/disappointed/jealous? And in contrast, what kinds of beliefs tend to lead one to curiosity?

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#167

Post by samatman »

NewEntryHN wrote: post #30
tcskeptic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are conflating being extraordinary with excellence -- the opposite of extraordinary is not mediocrity. We can all achieve excellence -- by definition being extraordinary is rare.

Except extraordinary is correlated with excellent because this premise: > We can all achieve excellence is false in practice.

I don't entirely agree.

In this context, excellence is a stand in for what Aristotle calls arete in the Nicomachean Ethics. Or if it isn't, it should be; this conversation spans millennia.

For any given field of endeavour, we may aspire to excellence, but it isn't given to all of us to achieve it.

However I must believe that arete is, if not available to absolutely everyone, at least, an accessible part of the human condition, to the point where someone who was born with such a paucity of gifts as to make this impossible, I would consider disabled.

Schizophrenia comes to mind as an example of a condition which makes this very difficult. But Terry Davis shows us that it isn't impossible.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#168

Post by petra »

afpx wrote: post #158
mettamage wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you do leverage these strengths? I have a somewhat similar profile and I simply feel like a fish judged by its ability to climb a tree. Yet, I: - Help with hiring/marketing/leading scrum sessions (when the actual scrum master is ill) - Conduct pentests - Do the frontend and backend (what I was hired to do) If they'd let me, I'd help with the writing efforts as well as my writing ability is better than that of…

One of my favorite colleagues is just an average developer, but he’s also very funny. He has figured out his niche and excels at it. To leverage strengths, it’s often helpful to understand the team.

How is him being funny helpful for career advancement ?

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#169

Post by thelean12 »

PaulStatezny wrote: post #166
thelean12 wrote: post #65

There are lots of people reacting to the extraordinary with "inspiration", "disappointment", and "jealousy". I'd say none of these are as useful as reacting with curiosity . There's an endless amount to learn from the extraordinary in any field or sport or hobby. It's easy to write off the extraordinary as naturally talented or lucky or something else surface level. Most of the time it's anything but. I play golf. It…

Disclaimer: I ask this to explore the truth in your comment, not to be pedantic about your choice of terms. > Curiosity is the only emotion I've found that's sustainable. It jumped out at me that curiosity technically isn't an emotion, but might be better labeled a state of mind. So the natural follow-up question for me is: What are some ways to help oneself get in that state of mind? The professor that taught my "lo…

Emotion, reaction, state of mind, whatever floats your boat. I think I got my point across.

As for how to get into the curiosity mindset, and how to push away the other states of mind, I don't have a full answer for you. My personal strategies stem from a somewhat related area of study: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm able to push away the negative thoughts like disappointment/jealousy/anger and substitute it with curiosity. I don't necessarily find inspiration or other "positive" states of mind something I need to push away, I'm just aware that it's fleeting.

Re: Being OK with not being extraordinary

#170

Post by syndacks »

mettamage wrote: post #126
syndacks wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do you do leverage these strengths? What is your goal? I identify with the parent comment here, (the parent of that too) and feel like I've reached a point where the most obvious answer to your question (on leveraging strengths) is management. If you can code, project manage, and communicate effectively with [non]tech people and don't mind the stress of dealing with other people's issues, then it might be up you…

Say if that were true (as it might be), one doesn't just go into project management. There is no company who'd hire me as that as I have no prior experience in it.

>I have no prior experience in it

Well based on the comment I replied to, you communicated that you did! Don't sell yourself short. Talk to your manager; is there opportunity at your current org to do the kind of work you are looking for? If not, look elsewhere; the challenge is communicating that you have the relevant experience (ideally with something to show at your current role (hence my previous comment)).

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