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Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

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Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#161

Post by jeroenhd »

McDyver wrote: post #149

I had already commented this 7 months ago when Russia did the same thing. "In the interest of the people everywhere in the world, there should always be dial-up access points available, in different countries. The "national interest", for whichever country, should always be the people's interest; and restricted information has never been of any benefit except for those restricting it" Someone had raised the point tha…

Some ISPs do provide dialup. For example: https://twitter.com/xs4all/status/274631880429670400

It does take an "activist" ISP to set up a general access dial-up line though. There's not that many around.

-- For those reading this still in need of dialup access but blocked from visiting Twitter, the details from the tweet are: Phone number: +31205350535 User: xs4all Password: xs4all

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#162

Post by actuator »

McDyver wrote: post #159
stefan_ wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course ISPs can stop modems from working. But nothing to stop a directed, tracking satellite system like Starlink (except somewhat triangulate senders).

The problem with relying on a single private company like SpaceX is that it still is a single point of failure. Who's to say that Musk, or whoever will own Starlink next, won't side with an authoritarian regime, and do the same?

That is not even an if. He like most humans would do anything to secure his profits. He has been mum on anything related to HK but wouldn't hesitate to drop statements like this.[1]

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-ro...

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#163

Post by DenisM »

dmix wrote: post #104

I've noticed this in other countries where there are accusations of rigging the results that the ratios always super high, in this case 80%. If you're going to fake an election result that had some legitimate measurable opposition, why make it so extremely high? Does that mean nearly every vote counting place is rigged and it's so bad they don't even bother hiding it? Just like when Crimea voted to join Russia it was…

An autocrat himself is not rigging things, he assigns tasks to various people and holds them to account. For them it's safer to err on the side of caution, and for him it's better to reward the over-achievers than to be seen cutting slack to the under-achievers.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#164

Post by gpm »

enkid wrote: post #73
gpm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* International treaties and national laws prohibit sending radio signals into the country if the countries government doesn't give you permission. Space ISPs are very unlikely to do so without permission except at the behest of their home government.

Can you point to a specific treaty? Radio Free Europe has been doing it for decades. Photons don't stop at national borders, and the footprint of a satellite is likely going to mean that Belarus will have transmissions from satellites, even if no one wants that to happen.

Article 18.1 or the ITU Radio Regulations (a binding treaty) states that

> No transmitting station may be established or operated by a private person or by any enterprise without a licence issued in an appropriate form and in conformity with the provisions of these Regulations by or on behalf of the government of the country to which the station in question is subject (however, see Nos. 18.2, 18.8 and 18.11).

SpaceX cannot help establish, or help operate, these ground stations. Technically could they sell them in another country? Maybe, I don't think the ITU would accept that considering that have to have control over the software for routing purposes, and that they know exactly where the ground station is because of beam forming.

The Outer Space Treaty article 3 also states that

> States Parties to the Treaty shall carry on activities in the exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, in accordance with international law, including the Charter of the United Nations, in the interest of maintaining international peace and security and promoting international co- operation and understanding.

(Later incorporated against private entities in a different article).

It would not be much of a stretch to consider this a violation of this article as well.

It is slightly less clear cut than I remember though.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#165

Post by sam_lowry_ »

zihotki wrote: post #88
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday, there were reports of Russian mercs arriving to help Lukashenka fight his people. Just saying.

Belorussian here, there are no proofs for that yet, only rumors.

Hm... a real Belarusian would not call himself BelOrusSian.

You are a dope.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#166

Post by dgellow »

foepys wrote: post #131
Nginx487 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So-called "elections" after 5th-6th term are a bad joke. Face it, ex-Soviet republics Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan never seazed to be totalitarian regimes with pathetic tries to convince the world they adopted some democracy.

I don't think it's impossible for elected officials to be liked for 5 or 6 terms. In Germany Merkel is so well liked that most people (>70% according to polls) are actually sad that she doesn't want to run for a 5th term.

I think it’s worth pointing out that a German chancellor has very limited power when compared to the Belorussian president.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#167

Post by ciguy »

madaxe_again wrote: post #30
ciguy wrote: post #15

This is incredibly sad. I spent a few weeks in Belarus last summer (2019) and everyone seemed incredibly hopeful and positive. It's a beautiful country and Minsk is a gorgeous city. I've been able to contact a few of my friends there sporadically over the past few days, but have heard nothing from them for 24 hours. Initially it seemed like a block on communication apps like WhatsApp and they could get around it with…

I was there in ‘17 - and nobody, nobody I met had a good word to say about the government. The main theme was “it’s going to change, soon” - which makes the credibility of this result all the less probable. Sure, it’s apocryphal, but after a month there travelling all over, the only person I met who thought lukashenko was good for the country was a multimillionaire from “business”.

Yeah I got the impression that people really believed things would change next election when I was there. And similar experience regarding general opinion of the government. Though I always take that with a grain of salt because the people I talk to are generally not a good random sampling of the population, definitely selection bias at work.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#168

Post by betterunix2 »

McDyver wrote: post #149

I had already commented this 7 months ago when Russia did the same thing. "In the interest of the people everywhere in the world, there should always be dial-up access points available, in different countries. The "national interest", for whichever country, should always be the people's interest; and restricted information has never been of any benefit except for those restricting it" Someone had raised the point tha…

I doubt it would help, since it is increasingly common for POTS traffic to simply be routed over the Internet, so an Internet shutoff would also affect phone service.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#169

Post by sergeykish »

enkid wrote: post #45
est31 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any country which has the capability of shooting down satellites has more influence than countries which can't do it. But even a country with like 100 million residents, if it doesn't have a space program (or someone protecting it with a space program), it doesn't have much of a say.

Countries that have that capability can't shoot down 40000 of them.

A few hits would provide enough junk for runaway process

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#170

Post by betterunix2 »

gpm wrote: post #17
est31 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will shift a lot of power from the countries where the internet users are located to the countries where the space internet companies operate from. Both in the free countries like the EU, and in non-free countries like Belarus. That being said, the user's country still has some level of control: * the companies want to be paid by their users somehow, and local governments usually have control over money flows insi…

* International treaties and national laws prohibit sending radio signals into the country if the countries government doesn't give you permission. Space ISPs are very unlikely to do so without permission except at the behest of their home government.

Serious question: how would a satellite ISP know where a user is located? Moreover, how can a satellite ISP ensure that its signals are not entering a particular country, especially a geographically small country?
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