Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

roguelazer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 648 posts

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#161

Post by tyingq »

mvanga wrote: post #133

This is one weird comment section. There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. The key point of the article is not really being addressed here: vested interests from large companies are able to introduce huge complexity into simple, well-designed projects. While the complexity may be good for some end that said vested interest has in mind, they are al…

Meh, having your opener call out a specific project as bullshit has that effect.

Pulling the snark would have resulted in more people getting the main point.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#162

Post by billfor »

jonfw wrote: post #137
billfor wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to do conditional logic in it, like: matchExpressions: - key: app operator: In values: - myservice Rather than, if (app=="myservice")

Why would you do this in a Kubernetes context?

To specify a podAffinityTerm, amongst others.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#163

Post by fwsgonzo »

mvanga wrote: post #133

This is one weird comment section. There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. The key point of the article is not really being addressed here: vested interests from large companies are able to introduce huge complexity into simple, well-designed projects. While the complexity may be good for some end that said vested interest has in mind, they are al…

I think everyone here remembers that time they wrote a simple HTTP server, that just works, and would continue to work today.

If anything, I hope that we can recognize that there has been advancements in computing. Back in the day you would be open to attacks left and right. It was the wild west back in the day. Today, you can take that tiny webserver and put it in a VM, and voila, now it doesn't matter if anyone breaks in. As long as you didn't add the SSH key to github or anything like that.

We can have complex programs, as long as every-man doesn't have to know the details behind it, or implement it or risk losing access he previously had.

I think new protocols that are extremely hard to implement falls under that, and I don't think Qemu or Linux does, as nobody loses anything when Linux adds new complex features.

We have to make sure, at least, that we continue to support HTTP/1. I think we already lost a lot when we moved away from IRC.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#165

Post by masklinn »

solumos wrote: post #136

There's a lot of inflammatory buildup to the chief complaint: > With the massive influx of Kubernetes users came, of course, a large number of Xooglers who decided to infect etcd with Google technologies, as is their way23. Etcd's simple HTTP API was replaced by a "gRPC"4 version; the simple internal data model was replaced by a dense and non-orthogonal data model with different types for leases, locks, transactions,…

> nobody's making the author upgrade to the gRPC-based etcd v3.

They're stating that the v2 API keeps being slated for termination. Surely once that happens they won't be able to use it anymore, and will have to either use an unmaintained etcd, fork it entirely, or be forced to use the v3 API?

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#166

Post by perryizgr8 »

dimgl wrote: post #5
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #3

"Kubernetes is the worst thing to happen to system administration since systemd." I'll take that quote into my fortune file.

What are some of the arguments against `systemd`? I've used it in several production systems and don't really have an opinion on it.

One practical problem I've had is with journald. The log files are useless outside of the system they were generated on. They could have just used a simple text file and avoided major headaches.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#167

Post by Gaelan »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #66
gnur wrote: post #23

It's mostly a rant about someone not accepting that extra performance can come at the cost of complexity. While I could argue with all the points that he's making, my main counterpoint is this: junior devs don't care that their http/2 server uses way more "complex" code then their http/1 server, it's just a flag away (or in most cases, automatic). Senior devs worth their salt also don't care, if I design an applicati…

The performance benefits are aimed squarely at the large, entrenched interests who can absorb the increased costs as a rounding error. HTTP/2 and SPDY/QUIC look, to me, to be about decreasing costs and increasing efficiency for large web hosts and erecting barriers-to-entry for competitors.

I mean, who are these newcomers we're talking about? There's basically never a reason to roll your own web server. I guess if you want to compete with Nginx, sure, the barrier of entry is a higher now? But that's an incredibly niche case.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#168

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

I feel the author's pain. Earlier today I literally said "modern software makes me wish I was dead". Things are so unbelievably bad now, and nobody in a position to do anything about it seems to care, and the kids growing up with this garbage think it's normal that it sucks so bad. No, it's worse than that, they celebrate it! It is now at the point that I no longer want to work in this field and am actively seeking alternatives. I just can't deal with the bullshit anymore.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#169

Post by shadowgovt »

masklinn wrote: post #165
solumos wrote: post #136

There's a lot of inflammatory buildup to the chief complaint: > With the massive influx of Kubernetes users came, of course, a large number of Xooglers who decided to infect etcd with Google technologies, as is their way23. Etcd's simple HTTP API was replaced by a "gRPC"4 version; the simple internal data model was replaced by a dense and non-orthogonal data model with different types for leases, locks, transactions,…

> nobody's making the author upgrade to the gRPC-based etcd v3. They're stating that the v2 API keeps being slated for termination. Surely once that happens they won't be able to use it anymore, and will have to either use an unmaintained etcd, fork it entirely, or be forced to use the v3 API?

That actually raises the oldest question in open-source engineering:

If the HTTP API has value, why not fork etcd and maintain a version where the HTTP API is the primary interface and gRPC is an afterthought or missing?

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#170

Post by bfb09 »

tyingq wrote: post #161
mvanga wrote: post #133

This is one weird comment section. There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. The key point of the article is not really being addressed here: vested interests from large companies are able to introduce huge complexity into simple, well-designed projects. While the complexity may be good for some end that said vested interest has in mind, they are al…

Meh, having your opener call out a specific project as bullshit has that effect. Pulling the snark would have resulted in more people getting the main point.

Perhaps the people who treat CoreOS being called bullshit as dispositive of the entire thesis, and an inclusion worthy of disregarding the author and thinking of him in any way other than making an argument, aren't the intended audience.

Pull the snark out and there will remain any element of this post that kicks off a violent HN centithread that conveniently avoids the core issue. You know it, I know it.

Post reply on HN