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Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

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Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are indeed missing something here :) Long 1-wire networks are notoriously unreliable [1]. Something that works fine today can stop working tomorrow. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be used anywhere. They have their niche. If I want my heating system monitor to report temperatures once per hour and it takes me 5 tries and 10 seconds to read a sensor, I call it good enough. If monitor doesn't succeed after 20…

Thanks for the perspective. 2 points in which I disagree: on design and on reliability. First, on design. In your cited app note, Maxim explicitly denotes from the onset: > Operating a 1-Wire network beyond the limits or disregarding advice given in this document may result in unreliable network performance. The key operator that I see here is "beyond the limits", to which Maxim engineers appear to have done a fair j…

I am having troubles understanding your reply. You're saying that these counterfeit sensors cannot be used for anything critical with "meaningful skin in the game", which is an obvious statement. In fact, depending on definition of "critical" and "skin in the game", one can make an argument that authentic DS18B20 sensors also aren't good enough. So what?

This whole story about not using things where they shouldn't be used is like saying "don't use an arduino on a chemical plant". Thanks, we get it.

> The key operator that I see here is "beyond the limits", to which Maxim engineers appear to have done a fair job of specifying

Except that limits are not well specified since they depend on too many factors (ambient temperature, parasitic cable capacitance, noise pickup, etc). These are recommendations on improving reliability, not hard guarantees. I'd recommend actually reading that note.

> If your long 1-wire network works today but not tomorrow, then it's difficult to swallow attribution of the issue to a singular authentic component constrained by documented performance specs rather than the system's overarching design.

This is again a trivial statement. Where did I claim the opposite?

If a weather monitor equipped with 1-wire devices has intermittent communication issues, do you immediately replace the entire system? Good luck with that proposal :)

If you replace your 1-wire driver on the above mentioned system to the one with active pullup and issues go away, do you still scrap the system because it's "out of spec" according to recommendations?

> Since practicing engineers don't have the leisure of independently validating every bit of specified electrical minutae, we generally have to extend some level of trust to what the component vendors specify in datasheets unless presented with evidence to the contrary (because bugs).

Again not sure what's the point of this trivial statement. Yes, bugs. I, "practicing engineer", have the leisure to independently validate datasheets when required. I also rely on them when I can. So what?

> especially given all the effort to demonstrate and document that the physical implementations of these counterfeits are clearly different...which renders the reference datasheet null and void in its entirety...

I invite you to research re. FDTI-gate and its widespread use, including medical devices.

Are you comfortable using light bulbs purchased from amazon in your kitchen without looking at the reference datasheet?

If I need an accuracy of +/- 5 degrees for not critical monitoring purposes, can I use "counterfeit" DS18B20 sensors?

If I need an accuracy of +/- 0.1 degrees for critical monitoring purposes, can I use "authentic" DS18B20 sensors?

Answers are as obvious as your statement.

> which I therefore conclude nothing about these counterfeit sensors can be trusted in any application with meaningful skin in the game

Your subjective "meaningful skin in the game" doesn't tell much. What sensors do you trust? Do you require calibration certificates traceable to a secondary standard for each component for them to be blessed for "application with meaningful skin in the game"?

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#162
post #6

This affects temperature sensors/parts bought from un-official distributors like ebay or AliExpress, not digikey, farnel, etc. Perhaps I've been too lucky in my career and practiced EE for work, but who would you ever go to ebay instead of digikey?? Digikey certainly has a premium, but their speciality is small numbers/cut tape/etc and they have a small order size which makes them ok for hobby work, and I've used the…

I live outside the US. Both Digikey and Mouser will charge me $20+ to ship anything (tried with a small capacitor). Farnell will let me put stuff in the shopping cart, then when I select "individual" as the customer type, tells me that they only ship to companies and redirects me to a "partner site" for individuals, which promptly fails to load (things like this have conditioned me to avoid official distributors). RS…

Digikey has free shipping for any order over (I think) $50. If you're trying to buy an individual capacitor then of course they're going to ping you for the extra time taken to ship. No-one can make a profit sending a $0.20 part individually.

I've never had any trouble getting individual parts from RS either.

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#163
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live outside the US. Both Digikey and Mouser will charge me $20+ to ship anything (tried with a small capacitor). Farnell will let me put stuff in the shopping cart, then when I select "individual" as the customer type, tells me that they only ship to companies and redirects me to a "partner site" for individuals, which promptly fails to load (things like this have conditioned me to avoid official distributors). RS…

I hear you, and even in the US it is a problem in Hawaii and Alaska. I live in the former and just yesterday was look at a part that was 8oz total and the site added a $100 HI, AK surcharge on shipping!!! This is mostly a UPS problem as for many suppliers they give great 48 state rates but anything else is horrible. Now I wouldn't mind this nearly as much if I could get the shipping rate upfront but it seems 80%+ of…

Somewhat unrelated, but how do you like living in Hawaii? I visited once and it was beautiful, but I'm not sure what it would be like living there long term.

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I buy a decent amount of hobby electronics from eBay and AliExpress because yes it is cheaper. When I need quality, Mouser, DigiKey, and McMaster-Carr are there for me. But the minimum $7-9 shipping is the main reason is forego them. I’d gladly pay 2x for small electronic components (vs directly from China options) if shipping wasn’t a problem.

That's actually how much it costs to ship stuff when it's not being exceptionally heavily subsidized by the utterly broken Universal Postal Treaty.

Orders with DHL across the EU are pretty much $4, without any other company ever handling it. Deliveries don't have to be that expensive.

Going further, if I'm in Germany, and order from a local place (e.g. a local ebay seller), I pay like $0.80 for postage on a delivery.

If I order from a reputable store... it's like 2 weeks waiting time with $15 on delivery.

In the past there used to be small stores everywhere selling every tiny part, but nowadays...

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I ask again: In what alternate reality In that alternative reality where, for example, mobile phone carriers are required to allow 911 calls even if your account is otherwise locked because you fraudulently paid with someone else's credit card.

I can play that game too. The fakes are so bad there is no telling if you are going to be able to reach 911 or, if you do, they don't report correct GPS coordinates. 9.2% of the people who call 911 never get through and 3.05% die. Even NADCAR races have a limited number of laps for a reason. We can go around and around this silly pile of hypothetical cases and lose complete sight of the fact that the root cause of th…

In this entire thread, you seem to be misinterpreting "fake chips are bad, but FTDI shouldn't brick them on purpose" as "fake chips are good, and FTDI is bad".

That is why you are struggling to understand what everyone else is saying.

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never expect to find these in official products from trusted brands, but off-brand crap? Oh yeah. DIY kits? Absolutely. The parts drawer at the makerspace? One hundred percent. So much stuff on eBay is free shipping, that's huge when you only need a few dollars worth of stuff. If I could convince Digi-Key to lick a 55-cent stamp when I need ten of something, instead of charging me $7 for shipping, I'd have a lot…

These show up in "trusted" Chinese brands too. Whenever you see a teardown where the markings are ground off a chip with obvious, non-trade secret function (USB serial converter for instance), its most likely a counterfeit that needs to have its fake markings removed to get past first world customs inspectors.

KingFast SSD https://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/manufact...

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#167

Anyone have an idea what these are used in? I originally thought they might be used for 3D printing, but that doesn’t seem to be the case - except, perhaps for chamber temperature.

I use a waterproofed version as a water temperature sensor (in the lake).

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, FTDI took some well deserved heat, but quickly discontinued this practice.

Both FTDI and Prolific have done this kind of thing. I switched to the CH340 a while back without any issues.

how about cp2102? I prefer it to ch340, for no reason though ))

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know you're dealing with counterfeits and you know they're unreliable, but you've somehow convinced yourself that despite all the uncovered variance sitting on the table, if you keep poking long enough until the component returns some non-edge-case value, then it "works fine". Yes? Because it usually does? If you test a bunch of fakes and they tend to be either basically accurate xor really inaccurate, and your…

"usually"..."basically"..."probably"...that's a lot of handwaving. Your usecase is both your prerogative and your folly to embrace; that's not the point. I poke fun at the OP because his qualifier for "works fine" is an indeterminate definition of eventually establishing some semblance of compliant 1-wire communication with a counterfeit component without even so much as batting an eye to question the accuracy of the…

Really living up to the overly critical HN user aren’t you?

Re: Your DS18B20 temperature sensor is likely a fake, counterfeit, clone

#170
post #6

This affects temperature sensors/parts bought from un-official distributors like ebay or AliExpress, not digikey, farnel, etc. Perhaps I've been too lucky in my career and practiced EE for work, but who would you ever go to ebay instead of digikey?? Digikey certainly has a premium, but their speciality is small numbers/cut tape/etc and they have a small order size which makes them ok for hobby work, and I've used the…

I live in Russia. Some time ago it was possible to buy from these distributors (and pay additional $20 - $50 for shipping). Nowadays they ship only to companies, not domestic addresses, so it is not only cost-prohibitive for cheap orders, but outright impossible for a hobbyist or individual person.
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