Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says • Hacker News Board

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#161

Post by jaynetics » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

csunbird wrote: post #136

buboard wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you say the cultural difference was equally massive 20 years ago, when turkey was much more aligned towards an EU future? I don't think so much has changed in turkey culturally, but a lot has changed politically

No, I still think we were not ready 20 years ago and we still not are. The main problem with the political changes that it stole from the time we could have used to find a middle ground between both cultures and be compatible, but it was spent on nonconstructive things instead. I do not support that Turkish culture should be replaced by European one, but we could have made it work somehow.

What are the cultural differences that lead to incompatibility in your opinion, and which of those would you like to keep?

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#162

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #111

m_a_g wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey has been a democracy for almost a century now. However, it all comes down to this, what happens when people of a democratic country elect a president that has totalitarian tendencies?

This happens all the time, and the criticisms are, in my mind, directed at policy as much as anything about the people having “totalitarian tendencies.” In Muslim countries, in particular, like Turkey and Egypt, totalitarianism is usually invoked to keep out proponents of political Islam. Erdogan was replacing authoritarians who maintained Turkey’s secular regime against a religious populace. When Egypt’s dictator fe…

[deleted]

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#163

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

> social media undermines democracies as well

It's a good thing that power in democracies is determined by secret ballot and not likes on social media then!

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#164

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

[deleted]

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#165

Post by google234123 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #134

umvi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Columbus has been a point of contention for a while now That's a given, but it's arbitrary in that he's not generally recognized as a "symbol of slavery" like Confederate flags or statues are, so it's just minorities taking advantage of turmoil to bypass the democratic process and impose their will on everyone. On a side note, I personally think it's wrong to retroactively "cancel" historical figures because we now…

The confederate statues were erected many years after the war they had lost, specifically to promote white supremacy. Lee wasn't ""cancelled"", he surrendered, and was shown considerably more mercy than the 20th century showed to the surrendering Nazis. Putting up a statue of Lee was whatever the opposite of virtue signalling is - vice signalling?

I'm not sure what the point of is of bringing up how Lee was treated at the end of the civil war. It's hard to say how handling things different at that time would have actually gone.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#166

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

ed_balls wrote: post #57

haunter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish

I don't think it's fare to compare Poland to Turkey. No one is jailing judges. It extremely hard to do a major judicial reform which is needed. The ruling party argument is that that the system of election the supreme court is flawed. There is a risk of deep state influence from the previous system and ties to Russia. When Germany was reunified they a purge of people with ties to DDR. Nothing like that happened in Po…

Weren’t they messing with Supreme Court in Poland?

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#167

Post by google234123 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #90

umvi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we can have an election outcome that no one in the media predicted. I'm surprised you chose this as the prime example. I think things surrounding George Floyd protests are more apt examples (tearing down arbitrary statues, cancel culture, CHOP/CHAZ, social media mobs, etc).

The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Similarly, US police have been routinely murdering people for years. What social media has done is allow the creation of a "headless" protest movement that can outrun attempts to take it down. In both cases, some people have leapt in and gone too far because they enjoy the chaos, but don't let that obscure the real issues. No, the problem…

Your statement that US police have been routinely murdering people for years is exaggerated.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#168

Post by umvi » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #163

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

> social media undermines democracies as well It's a good thing that power in democracies is determined by secret ballot and not likes on social media then!

Power in democracy and power in society are two different things. If someone is wielding un-democratic power in society, that power is undermining democratic power.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#169

Post by 0d9eooo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #33

It's so weird that people here usually want to regulate social media, but when some other government that doesn't share your worldview does it, it's all of a sudden oppressive. You say the wrong thing online in the UK or Germany, the police come knocking. Everyone always thinks their reason for censorship is exceptional because their beliefs are the one-true virtuous beliefs in the universe.

It's not just here. It seems like a common sentiment in a lot of places. It's confusing to me as well. There's a direct line in my mind from calls for social media to be self-regulate or be regulated (interestingly in different ways from conservatives and liberals), to these kinds of comments from Erdogan. It might be causal, it might just create a cultural context, but it's hard not to conclude that echoing calls for regulation of social media in the US aren't being coopted or leveraged in this case in a way that's very predictable.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#170

Post by blumomo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #94

blumomo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your quotations there's nothing about any insult to his family. That means a causal relation isn't yet proven.

He was being asked directly about the insults. >"We experienced similar attacks in the past. The lack of monitoring on these platforms have a role in the rise of this sort of immoral behaviour. These platforms do not suit this country. We want these platforms to be banned, taken under control." The "similar attacks", and the "immoral behavior" are direct references to insults against him and his family on social medi…

No need to be insulting yourself. I was asking for evidence of the personal attacks and you listed them.

The AP should have added then that a newborn was insulted instead of referring to „his family“. Someone who insults a baby must be quiet foolish. There seems to be a heating debate! At least Turkey got some balls and they talk openly about Adrenochrome in the main stream news, can’t be that bad their censorship. In other countries and on Youtube you get deleted and insulted when talking about child abuse. It’s easy to point on other people and label them censorship when you should instead point the finger on your own media.