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University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

uopeople.edu

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Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#161

Post by AlexClay »

tomato2juice wrote: post #64
cstejerean wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can kinda do that already. In my first semester at WGU I went through about 20 classes. It’s competency based and you can complete classes as soon as you master the material.

> In my first semester at WGU I went through about 20 classes. Woah, that sounds insane at first, but I'm assuming some of these might be like history 101? Could you elaborate on which program and which classes this was?

I'm currently enrolled in WGU in CS, I started 11 days ago and I finished 8 courses out of 34. They were (5) programming (2) Math (1) general

Most exams have a cutoff of 66.6%. Above that is a pass and below that is a fail. The university doesn't assign a GPA grade therefore you graduate with an automatic GPA of 3.0 regardless of how well you score. Since there's no intensive for a higher score and I already know the material from working in the industry (SQL, HTML, Java), I'm speed running the curriculum for the Bachelor's degree.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#162

Post by themodelplumber »

jariel wrote: post #146
themodelplumber wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit of an overreach, isn't it, calling my writing incoherent and incompetent? (Edit: Parent clarified that "you" is meant to mean a hypothetical student, not me.) If more information is needed, as was the case here, we can ask questions. That's got nothing to do with author competence. It's not an essay contest. And why assume we know it all, filling in the gaps like that? In a discussion of ethics, this is…

His statement was very matter of fact. If students don't bother to do the work, they won't develop any competence in the discipline. It would be like sending someone for Scala training, only to have them skip all of the work, buy the answers to the quiz, get the accreditation. University is about much more than 'skill acquisition' but there is a lot of that. Cheating is almost universally pointless.

(Edit: Thanks for the clarification on the other comment--I had read the "you" wrong)

Sure, that example absolutely works. One reason why you wouldn't cheat is that you know that a specific outcome you want requires something of you that you must learn. I found it striking just how rare this was, though. We can fault students for not having made up their minds, but I found that many of them are just really open to new directions, and this can help to enable part of the plagiarism equation, but it's also something of a gift...

Anyway, talking to my students I discovered that the discipline is really often completely up in the air. So while the rhetorical / imaginary student's path for the purposes of argument might be be "study math -> work in applied math," quite often it's "study phil -> work in I don't know what" or similar.

The students who plagiarize with this mindset are really quite something. It's nuanced--they're smart about it, leaving no final question on which points against them can rest. For example, the student submits a first prospective paper in which they quote-paste for pages on end and then plagiarize not by direct-copy, but by reading and then re-hashing someone else's conclusion from a book or another paper, and they get a C+. Well, if a B- is all they need in the class, they are good to go. Then they take a reactive / tactical stance and only change this approach in the future if they absolutely have to.

This pattern happens over and over. If you attempt to pin the student down on qualitative issues, they have a number of tools to use here. You have to be ready for extreme negotiation. They _may not be able_ to learn about quality, ethics, etc. Shocking sometimes but it's a struggle for many. One of the most common negotiation techniques is, "I just...I don't understand. I'm really not that smart" and then they start crying or leave the room in a rage. This can instantly shut down a professor with average or greater levels of sympathy. The student converted the negotiating professor's original value proposition into a risky interpersonal issue. If further negotiations occur, they will find ways to illustrate why things are unfair to them. What is the prof going to do about that? Do they even have time for it at all?

Then you can go back to students who are in the "study math -> work in applied math" group. You look outside of the math classes and you can see the same pattern. They know wasted effort when they see it, or think they do. And again--some, not all. Savvy employers also weed out some of these people but then other employers hire them because they desire tactical cleverness in their organization, and they recognize it when they see it. Maybe it's how they got the boss job in the first place.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#163

Post by jki275 »

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #157
jki275 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It's a story that nationally accredited schools like to tell, but it's not really true. Regionally accredited schools simply don't take credits from schools that aren't.

I know several students who've transferred to WGU (RA, non-profit, online) to complete their bachelors degrees. There are also students compiling lists of schools which will consider and/or accept UoPeople credits/degrees. https://www.reddit.com/r/UoPeople/comments/g55smv/list_of_in... The idea that UoPeople is some kind of academic dead-end is simply not accurate. It's not going to get as far as a degree from a no-n…

You can certainly get emails that talk about "we'll give you advanced standing" or some such bs, but credits don't actually transfer.

You're deluding yourself, as people who go to these dead end institutions often do. You're of course free to do so, but if you think you are actually going to a real university, you're going to be in bad shape.

Of course all this ignores the fact that the curriculum isn't adequate.

Reddit posts aren't really proof of anything.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#164

Post by sooheon »

themodelplumber wrote: post #40
dart600 wrote: post #33

Hi. I attended this school and then got accepted to another more standard institution, which I applied at the same time to. The new institution, learning I had been attending U of the P, promptly told me that U of the P credits would not transfer. Universal transferability in question, I opted out. I did enjoy meeting people from all walks of life, all over the world. However, I also saw a grossly wide range of educa…

> could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical I remember experiencing this at a private religious university. At the time, my hyper-religious mind was blown to see students outright cheating in the Testing Center. Since then I've been exposed to additional perspectives on plagiarism. It is an extremely deep and nuanced topic. A few years out of school, I ended up mentoring and then teaching college student…

This is a great meta level view of the moral perception landscape, the individual replies advocating for one particular prescriptive position or the other are missing the forest for the trees.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#165

Post by sooheon »

christiansakai wrote: post #151
themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical I remember experiencing this at a private religious university. At the time, my hyper-religious mind was blown to see students outright cheating in the Testing Center. Since then I've been exposed to additional perspectives on plagiarism. It is an extremely deep and nuanced topic. A few years out of school, I ended up mentoring and then teaching college student…

Wait, this is interesting. I thought plagiarism is universally bad? Can someone explain?

themodelplumber is a perceptive observer of human psychology, and they've described some of the ways people justify cheating with one narrative or the other. This isn't advocating for cheating or plagiarism, just hypothesizing why some brains are happy to do it.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#166

Post by jki275 »

misterhtmlcss wrote: post #111
uopeoplestudent wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just add that many UoPeople students in the US transfer to WGU to complete their bachelor's degree. (WGU is regionally accredited, so it carried more weight. And it accepts UoPeople credits.)

So the savvy move if you have the cash is to do your three years and then what transfer to your final year at WGU? That's so smart. What more do you know about this strategy? Can you introduce me to anyone who has done this?

It probably doesn't work that way.

You probably do 3 years at this whatever and then WGU says "we'll take your history and art credits, now start the rest of your degree over with us". That's generally how this sort of thing goes.

Also WGU isn't known for academic rigor either. They're essentially like Excelsior and UOP and AMU.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#167

Post by BeetleB »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #119
khawkins wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is under the assumption that you see college is a program of self-betterment and not busy work for receiving a degree that says you can have a middle-class job. It feels like even the universities themselves see it as the latter these days.

But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful.

> But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful.

Where do these mythical jobs exist where being able to write well is a requirement for career growth? Certainly not at engineering companies.

I wish what you said were true, but in my experience, "being able to write and communicate well is critical in the workplace" is one of the top lies taught to me when I was at university. We had to take a regular writing class, and a technical writing class to graduate with an engineering degree. And when I get to industry, I see no signs of people practicing what they're taught, and it doesn't hold anyone back.

Edit: I should say my experience is more about writing than communicating as a whole. People do need to be good speakers/presenters. But writing? Not really.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#168

Post by BeetleB »

javert wrote: post #133
themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical I remember experiencing this at a private religious university. At the time, my hyper-religious mind was blown to see students outright cheating in the Testing Center. Since then I've been exposed to additional perspectives on plagiarism. It is an extremely deep and nuanced topic. A few years out of school, I ended up mentoring and then teaching college student…

> Can you justify it in seconds, with something that's not simply a subjective perception or largely-covert moral construct of your own You are making this way too complicated. It's honesty vs. dishonesty. Those of us playing on team honesty are right to view the dishonest as playing on the opposite team. Which team is actually morally right, is the complex issue.

> You are making this way too complicated.

> It's honesty vs. dishonesty.

Kind of like you're either a criminal or you're not. If you drive 58mph on a 55mph zone you are. Otherwise you're not.

Binary positions are always convenient, once you pick a side.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#169

Post by uopeoplestudent »

jki275 wrote: post #163
uopeoplestudent wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know several students who've transferred to WGU (RA, non-profit, online) to complete their bachelors degrees. There are also students compiling lists of schools which will consider and/or accept UoPeople credits/degrees. https://www.reddit.com/r/UoPeople/comments/g55smv/list_of_in... The idea that UoPeople is some kind of academic dead-end is simply not accurate. It's not going to get as far as a degree from a no-n…

You can certainly get emails that talk about "we'll give you advanced standing" or some such bs, but credits don't actually transfer. You're deluding yourself, as people who go to these dead end institutions often do. You're of course free to do so, but if you think you are actually going to a real university, you're going to be in bad shape. Of course all this ignores the fact that the curriculum isn't adequate. Red…

> You're deluding yourself, as people who go to these dead end institutions often do. You're of course free to do so, but if you think you are actually going to a real university, you're going to be in bad shape.

I am curious. Why do you think I'm deluding myself? What do I stand to gain?

I've already stated elsewhere that my pursuit of this degree is purely for the love of learning. I've also stated that I already have an existing bachelor's degree from an RA school. I even have grad school experience--again from an RA school. I don't need this degree for anything.

I don't benefit anything from deluding myself. However, I do think it's important for other students to have a realistic understanding of how they can benefit from UoPeople and what its limitations are.

By saying "credit don't actually transfer" you're spreading misinformation. They do. They have.

Will they transfer to most RA schools? Probably not. Will they transfer to some, including some prestigious schools? Yes. These are facts. And it helps provide a realistic perspective to potential and/or existing students.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#170

Post by BeetleB »

zerof1l wrote: post #53

I've graduated from this university with a bachelor's in Computer Science last year. Overall I had a good experience. I found the curriculum to be on a weaker side. I was interested in various things about computers when I was young, so it felt like I knew half of the material. While studying, I was working at the company part-time. At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week when tak…

> At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week when taking 2 courses. In reality, it took me half of that time. Usually 10 hours per week.

30 hours per week for just 2 courses? Are these courses covering more than a typical university?

In my undergrad, I took a minimum of 5 courses per semester (16-20 credits). Scaling from your expectations, that would be 60-80 hours per week? I doubt I went over 40/week, including lectures (admittedly, it wasn't a demanding university).

Just giving you my 2 cents so you don't assume that the time you spent per course is all that different from a traditional university.

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