Why no looting in Japan? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#161

Post by teyc » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 11:49 AM UTC

Broken windows at work here. Nobody loots because nobody else loots.

In any instance, it takes a few disgruntled, enterprising people to start a riot or mass vandalism. Particularly the disaffected.

Racial homogeneity can only go so far to explain things, but Japan is a country where people generally look out for one another. When I was there, people were so polite that I thought these people were feigning politeness. I remembered walking out of a food stall when the head waiter would call out that a customer is leaving, and all the wait staff would turn around and bow and ask us to come again. It was simply amazing. I guess by learning to be polite even when you are tired, stressed, you become very good at being outwardly calm and it helps to maintain social order.

Incidentally, I remembered the caning incident where a young expat in Singapore spray painted cars and got several strokes of cane as a punishment. Wanton destruction is an alien concept to me when I grew up in Asia. A lot of vandalism with spray painting were simply copy cats importing an unwanted culture.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#162

Post by dragons » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 11:53 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #119

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all means, please do elaborate.

I was thinking the same thing. Modern Japanese culture looks very negatively at people who put their own interests ahead of everybody else's, to an extent that you probably can't imagine if you haven't been there, and this is backed up by very low levels of inequality. I remember a news program I was watching in our Japanese class in, uh, probably 1992. A couple of policemen were interviewing a distraught convenience…

> Whatever the cause, though, people from the US almost universally think of lawbreaking as a common and often harmless activity, not something limited to the mentally handicapped or partially insane - something that many people would do if the law weren't restraining them.

I don't think you're correct, that's certainly not a "universal" thought, although I suppose there may be subcultures that believe this. I live in the US, and I don't know anyone who thinks this way (at least no one I've discussed it with). We think criminals had a bad upbringing, or that they have some kind of psychological problem (which may be due to physical brain problems).

> "He just looked like a normal person! But obviously he wasn't, because he robbed the store!"

I like this response; it sounds like the response I'd have given.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#163

Post by saint-loup » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 12:15 PM UTC

kymmx wrote: post #124

tc wrote: post #10

From Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! ; Feynman and a colleague are staying at a traditional Japanese hotel in Kyoto: The next morning the young woman taking care of our room fixes the bath, which was right in our room. Sometime later she returns with a tray to deliver breakfast. I'm partly dressed. She turns to me and says, politely, "Ohayo, gozai masu," which means, "Good morning." Pais is just coming out of the…

They don't feel embarrased if naked public, at least until sometime in twentieth when they finally prohibited child porns. They still have public spas that allow both men and women in one tub. I don't think your story represents Japanese people's personality regarding not looting. Read .

... A book written sixty years ago with war prisoners interviews as material. A great book, but not really the state of art. (I'm afraid I've got no better advice.)

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#164

Post by yannickmahe » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 12:18 PM UTC

There wasn't any looting also in the 2008 Chinese Wenchuan earthquake, where people are much poorer. I don't think the absence of looting has anything to do with the Japanese spirit, and is more about the human spirit.

I'd expect the same from anywhere.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#165

Post by ovi256 » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 1:01 PM UTC

temphn wrote: post #149

The answer to this question is completely obvious to people who spent formative years in Asia and are free of American/Western taboos (we have other taboos no doubt but not these). Here is why there is no looting in Japan. Across the world -- in the US, UK, Canada, Brazil, South Africa and any country where they live side by side -- people of primarily Northeast Asian descent tend to commit crime at lower rates than…

That's a very interesting, non-PC, and yes, blasphemous hypothesis. The data certainly seems to support it. I hope it begets a good discussion.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#166

Post by Natsu » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 1:34 PM UTC

BerislavLopac wrote: post #139

kymmx wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't feel embarrased if naked public, at least until sometime in twentieth when they finally prohibited child porns. They still have public spas that allow both men and women in one tub. I don't think your story represents Japanese people's personality regarding not looting. Read .

"They still have public spas that allow both men and women in one tub." What do you mean "allow"? Where I live (Europe) there are no restrictions in spas, and people can sit in tubs in any combinations they want...

He means that they have mixed bathing, so there's no men's and women's side of the onsen and so everyone goes into the same bath, whether they know each other or not.

There are other arrangements, too, though. In addition to simply splitting the onsen between a men's side and a women's side, they can also change from one to the other, so you can have mixed bathing later in the night, while being split the rest of the time.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#167

Post by kragen » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 1:42 PM UTC

dragons wrote: post #162

kragen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing. Modern Japanese culture looks very negatively at people who put their own interests ahead of everybody else's, to an extent that you probably can't imagine if you haven't been there, and this is backed up by very low levels of inequality. I remember a news program I was watching in our Japanese class in, uh, probably 1992. A couple of policemen were interviewing a distraught convenience…

> Whatever the cause, though, people from the US almost universally think of lawbreaking as a common and often harmless activity, not something limited to the mentally handicapped or partially insane - something that many people would do if the law weren't restraining them. I don't think you're correct, that's certainly not a "universal" thought, although I suppose there may be subcultures that believe this. I live i…

> I live in the US, and I don't know anyone who thinks this way

You don't know anyone who thinks of any of jaywalking, speeding, streaking, riding in a car without a seatbelt, smoking marijuana, and snorting cocaine as common and often harmless activities? Everyone you know thinks of all of them as activities limited to the mentally handicapped or partially insane?

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#168

Post by grammaton » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 1:57 PM UTC

By and large people don't go crazy looting during disasters. The idea that the moment authority disappears, we instantly devolve in to dog-eat-dog anarchy is a myth - mostly promulgated by those who feel it's their job to be the one in charge.

There are notable exceptions, of course, but for the most part people can do a pretty good job of policing themselves.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#169

Post by saidulislam » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 2:28 PM UTC

tc wrote: post #10

From Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! ; Feynman and a colleague are staying at a traditional Japanese hotel in Kyoto: The next morning the young woman taking care of our room fixes the bath, which was right in our room. Sometime later she returns with a tray to deliver breakfast. I'm partly dressed. She turns to me and says, politely, "Ohayo, gozai masu," which means, "Good morning." Pais is just coming out of the…

eh... we cannot characterize this stuff as civilized or uncivilized. It's just different from our(US) way of doing things. Have you used their public bathrooms or restrooms? It feels very very awkward. I don't like it but I wouldn't call it uncivilized. The way we live together here without marriage and stuff is viewed as uncivilized by most of the world.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#170

Post by RockyMcNuts » Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 2:38 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #46

StavrosK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to quote Feynman too, but a different part: This question of trying to figure out whether a book is good or bad by looking at it carefully or by taking the reports of a lot of people who looked at it carelessly is like this famous old problem: Nobody was permitted to see the Emperor of China, and the question was, What is the length of the Emperor of China’s nose? To find out, you go all over the country…

It strikes me as a theory with very poor explanatory power. We've seen many crises in the US as well, and Katrina was an exception . There have been a couple of others within my lifetime, but it's not politically correct to point out what similarities they may have. (I suppose I should point out this isn't a veiled reference to race , it's actually 100% cultural , but it's still not politically correct to discuss.) I…

In Japan and other Asian societies, individuals have stronger social ties to their families, neighbors, coworkers. In the US, economic ties are more important. The US was built by people who left their families, neighborhoods, and existing structures to seek their fortune in the US.

I apologize for a non-PC interjection. You can't totally separate race and culture in the US. When a group has differences in language, music, eating habits, values and other social interactions, it becomes useful to think about it as a subculture. At the risk of being non-PC, a 'black urban subculture' may license antisocial behavior that is considered more reprehensible in 'white suburban subculture'.

I hasten to add that people who are white may be strongly associate and be of high standing in 'black urban subculture' (ie Eminem), and people who are black may strongly associate and be of high standing in 'white suburban subculture,' (ie Obama) and that once you start making assumptions about people's values and cultural adherence based on the color of their skin you start crossing the line into racism, which I don't believe anyone of any race is entirely free of.