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Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

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Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#161

Post by jedberg »

joshpadnick wrote: post #34

We're a remote-first company and went through this same discussion when we began hiring people in different cities, not just in the USA but all around the world. What we found is that any approach to setting salaries has to balance the following factors: * Pay people enough to live comfortably * Pay people enough that they accept our offer vs competition * Pay people in a way that feels fair * Pay people in a way tha…

I run a remote-first company and follow a single-city model. But that city isn't SF.

I don't really know what city it is, but we pay people with the same experience doing the same work the same pay regardless of where they live.

I understand that this means that I probably can't afford someone in SF, but I also know that there is no way I was poaching from FAANG anyway, and there is plenty of good talent not in SF.

So I get high marks on all the criteria, as long as they don't live in an expensive city. It's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

As we get more successful, I can move everyone up to match the more expensive cities.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#162

Post by beager »

nostromo wrote: post #7

People should be warned that working remotely has been career suicide for as long as I've been in tech. Being "out of sight, out of mind" from management generally means you're passed over for promotions, and often the first to get cut during layoffs. It's just human nature. It's easier to layoff the person that's been working from across the country (or another country) than it is to layoff the person at the desk ne…

Disagree that what you wrote constitutes "career suicide".

- Being targeted for layoffs says more about the company you work for and less about your own career.

- Passed over for promotions is again saying a lot about the company, and many folks who work in offices still have to change jobs to get career advancement.

I, for one, believe that cultivating remote work competencies that hedge against either of those things is a valuable career skill. It means you can't schmooze your way in person through career growth, you have to do it by demonstrating real value to companies that will value you fairly.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#163

Post by Barrin92 »

Klonoar wrote: post #31

This feels like a "welp we need to cut some pay, let's see who takes the bait". Cost of living should not dictate your value to the company. If you're an engineer supporting x number of users worth y dollars, it literally does not change what you bring to the table whether you do the job in SF or Birmingham. Yes, they could hire cheaper in Birmingham, but they can't hire _you_. If you have a proven track record of do…

Your salary isn't based (at least directly) on your value to the company. It's based on how little they can get away to pay you for the service they want you to provide.

If you move somewhere with a lower cost of living, then chances are you're willing to accept a lower salary. If you truly provide some unique value you may have enough negotiating power to keep your salary, otherwise they'd look for a replacement.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#164

Post by bcyn »

Vysero wrote: post #145
bcyn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, it's not so cut and dry. It's sort of cyclical IMO: - There are already a ton of existing technology companies in the Bay Area, and also a ton of employees. - Students from schools around the country who are interested in tech might plan to move to the Bay Area due to the number of companies there. - If your company doesn't hire in the Bay Area, it may miss out on the chance to hire the employees in the gr…

So no tax or media related incentives to being in the Bay Area? You don't think it's worth more to Google to say: "Our headquarters are in SF" rather than: "Our headquarters are in podunk MT"? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that 90% of the reason FANG companies operate in large metropolitan areas has almost nothing to do with employees and everything to do with global image.

Would that image or media related incentive exist without the huge amount of tech work in the Bay Area? My point is that the pull of the Bay Area is cyclical - supply of tech workers fuels the SV image which fuels more supply of tech workers. I think it all started with tech workers though.

If Stanford or another incubator of tech innovators was in podunk MT, then we would be discussing that location instead.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#165

Post by jarjoura »

zuhayeer wrote: post #146

An interesting thing about Facebook comp thus far has been that their pay bands for engineering were the same across the United States assuming wherever they had an office (unlike other large companies like Microsoft and Amazon). For reference check out https://www.levels.fyi/company/Facebook/salaries/Software-En... . Pay cuts would come as a pretty hefty change to those who have already moved or relocated. At the sa…

That won't change if you're an employee working in an office with a local team.

Remote only roles will be billed differently.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#166

Post by chongli »

Vysero wrote: post #61
Hamuko wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $150k is not what your work is directly valued at, but rather an agreement of what it'll take for you to drag your ass to San Francisco, which is objectively a bad place to live if you're a human that has to make budgets, and come to work at Facebook. Also yes, if Facebook starts to hire remote workers, then your value will drop because they now have the access to a pool of workers who don't want to drag their as…

If the company was hemorrhaging money on employee salaries by being based in SF then why wouldn't they simply move the company somewhere else?

If they did that then they'd have to give everyone at the company a pay cut. They don't want to do that. They'd rather use these pay cuts to bully individual employees. If they went after everyone at once then they'd have a problem.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#167

Post by InvOfSmallC »

I mean, it's not something that isn't expected. I also think it's fair in a way.

I'm curious to see how many engineers will be interested. For example there is a company, quite famous, already known for the remote working that wanted to make me an offer, but it implied me opening a company in my country so that they can pay me because it was to complicated to have me directly in the payroll.

What I mean is that the law is still not prepared to support this worldwide.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#168

Post by maerF0x0 »

xchip wrote: post #157

Companies that sells Hardware sell it at the same everywhere despite the cost of living. Why isn't this the same for employees? We need to call out this bullshit.

Many companies will have different pricing models in different countries.

See https://steamdb.info/sales/ as an interesting exercise in arbitrage

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#169

Post by maerF0x0 »

iamcurious wrote: post #115

Cue to the horde of new startups that will be 100% remote and eat Zuckerberg's lunch. Remote will be the new open space, with all the buzz words, feel good stories and even the blind eye towards its obvious defects. Seriously, everything is documented, you can grow without worrying about floor space, you get access to a larger pool of talent, you are probably imagining more. Current managers may not like it, but hey…

They dont have to buy $30 a day worth of food/snacks. No foosball table maintenance costs. Air conditioning/heat on and on it goes.

Working remote for less money is probably a fools game once you consider the cost of your home office and lost perks.

Companies know this and are playing it smart by saying it's a benefit and therefore should pay _less_

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#170

Post by talmr »

pyuser583 wrote: post #143
Vysero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company was hemorrhaging money on employee salaries by being based in SF then why wouldn't they simply move the company somewhere else?

The bay area offers a guaranteed supply of qualified employees. A tech firm in Boise might not be able to hire and Elixir developer at any price. In SF, there will be employees as long as you have cash. Not so elsewhere.

Also, they might not even want to hire for such a thing.

There are plenty of businesses that don't need to be on fancy infrastructure or use the coolest new language for their backend.

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