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TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

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Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#161

Post by scottLobster »

boudin wrote: post #98
dannyw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you do business in China and recognise Taiwan, you will be shown the door and/or your. business will be literally stolen, so... it's not really different. It's about time we start making China accountable. It's about time we start blocking Tencent and Alibaba from further American acquisition or investment. It's about time we restrict and throttle CCP-controlled media platforms like Tiktok; the same way Ch…

This approach will only have impact in short term. You can be sure that TSMC is working behind the scene to create a legal entity to work around this legislation and get one of its main customers back. There's just 2 potential outcomes: - TSMC having found a way to workaround that restrictions and gaining back Huwaeï - China being forced to quickly gain the same level of expertise In both situation the outcome is eve…

Proper enforcement would prevent TSMC from making those moves, we'll see how that goes. As for China being able to "quickly" produce a TSMC equivalent, if that's the case then the US never really had any control in the first place and at least this way China's disrupted for the next few years, and physically cut off from future IP.

China has proven it won't play by the rules, so let's make it compete on its own with its own resources. Given their dependence on imports for food and energy, exports and bottomless debt for the rest of their economy, for all its size China is not positioned to be cut off from the global economy and remain competitive.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#162

Post by catalogia »

jacquesm wrote: post #133
catalogia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were obviously true, then why wouldn't the CCP just ban the import of silicon? Same effect without having to wait for America to do it, no?

Assuming that's a serious question: they don't have drop in replacements right now.

So then it does hurt them right now.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#163

Post by ClumsyPilot »

maxdo wrote: post #137
fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

Locking services is one thing, take as an example Xiaomi which started as an Apple copy. Right now it's a multibillion company. If copyright exists on China soil this company wouldn't exist at all and it will not take shares it has now. This is very basic path for many Chinese companies, yes, once they reach some volume they start to follow some rules since some grey area countries might ban them but till that moment…

The current IP regime is deeply problematic and I would not enourage other countries to copy it blindly.

Also in some societies the idea of intellectual property is not widely accepted, and obviously their laws and behaviour will reflect that.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#164

Post by ClumsyPilot »

LatteLazy wrote: post #132
fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

I don't think you're wrong but... Good luck convincing the average consumer (voter) to do without for a while and then pay more after that. They'll lynch you if they can't get the latest iTurd for 499.99 plus tax. Also, as long as the CCP run China, they'll be stronger than the west (consumerism and short-termism and Chinese abuses of them aren't just US issues). We need them to democratise, consumer domestically and…

Perhaps we should get a hanfle on short-termist and consumerism before they doom us, with or without China

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#165

Post by righteous »

tomp wrote: post #157
fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

I'm not supporter of free trade, I'm supporter of fair trade. What you've described is simply - unfair. Another extremely unfair thing is different employment & environmental standards. If an EU company opens a Chinese factory just because they can make people work more hours and can pollute the environment more, I don't really see that as a "globalization benefit", but rather as "unlawful competition" which results…

Free trade agreements should only be extended to countries that have roughly symmetrical environmental policies, human/labor rights, market access, IP protection, among other things.

Any trade less this sensibility amounts to the exploitation of people, the planet or of property rights, and should be taxed extensively.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#166

Post by the8472 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #158
tomp wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not supporter of free trade, I'm supporter of fair trade. What you've described is simply - unfair. Another extremely unfair thing is different employment & environmental standards. If an EU company opens a Chinese factory just because they can make people work more hours and can pollute the environment more, I don't really see that as a "globalization benefit", but rather as "unlawful competition" which results…

Are you sure your idea of fairness is right? Consider Mongolia, perhaps they want to match EU employment standards but can't afford do. What are they suppose to do? Suppose a democracy decided on different employment standards, should EU ban imports from US due to EU having higher standards of employee and environmental protection? How big does the difference have to be? Does your free trade "fairness" account for th…

Factor those externalties - internalized for some manufacturers by regulations - that allow them to manufacture more cheaply into the import tariffs. Trade is not the same as a tariff-free common market.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#167

Post by dragonsh »

maxdo wrote: post #159
andyzweb wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Korea just has a different mafia-style rule in the form of chaebol

This particular post was about the movie industry. Korea went in a different, much more competitive way, unlike China.

Brush up on Korea, there neither google nor Apple map can provide you navigation services, it is reserved for local company only. I have to drive car there using Korean gps.

For mobile network and services they have their own standard giving virtual monopoly to SK and KT telecom and local manufacturers. No foreign car manufacturer can setup easily in Korea, Samsung rebrand Nissan car as S5 and S7. Except high end German cars with high tariffs you will only see Korean brands.

Check any sector and you will find more hurdles. Doing business in Korea compared to China is harder, if you target local businesses.

These all are not visible or so pronounced because Korea is relatively small compared to China in terms of GDP and size. Actually Korea is more like China and unlike USA except for political systems.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#168

Post by trixie_ »

someperson wrote: post #154
fluffything wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. It's pretty much impossible to see the US getting involved. The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, so China would just be exercising their authority over a chinese company, just like they do with Huawei, Lenovo, and many others. NATO couldn't help either, because the US is not being militarily attacked by this. And well, the U…

Well the United States illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 without UN approval (with the pretense that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be false), and managed to get the United Kingdom, Spain, Australia and Poland along for the illegal ride. Taiwan has a vibrant democracy and is highly regarded internationally. If China invades Taiwan, the resulting coalition will look more li…

Not sure if you realize that 'Operation Enduring Freedom' is regarded to as a joke. A '40 country coalition' to invade two countries with no means of protecting themselves. It was like stepping on an anthill.

I can't comprehend how you wrote this sentence, 'attacking military assets on China's mainland to neutralize the invasion' What galaxy do you live in where you think this would ever happen?

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#169

Post by anthony_doan »

addicted wrote: post #93
elp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sends a really strong message to the rest of the world to try avoid buying US technology because they might get locked into arbitrary rules sometime in the future. There was an article in The Economist a few month back (can't find the link right now) that suggested that China might secretly like Donald Trump and accept the short term pain of his presidency because of the long term gain of the wedge he is…

If you just look at the Coronavirus as an example. The world would be quite happy pinning the blame on China. Instead, that would put them on the side of Donald Trump who is doing it in the most ham handed and transparently political way, and is, worse, messing with countries’ abilities to protect their citizens with a vaccine, by trying to buy away their companies, acquire exclusive rights, and refusing to sign any…

I think China's government should do something about all those viruses originating from their country.

I understand if it's an accident like MERS from middle east or ebola from Africa. But the frequency of China is a lot, they're up to 3 deadly viruses now: SARS, Covid19, and Avian Flu.

China should at least share their health data on pandemic of these viruses. So other countries can decide a plan of actions. I'm sure they can do it in a way to anonymize these records.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#170

Post by trixie_ »

someperson wrote: post #96
trixie_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is having a nuclear war over Taiwan. It's important, but not that important. If China invaded Taiwan, the US would not defend it. Super powers don't go to war. They have wars through proxy countries. If super powers did go to war, it would be nuclear war, and it would be bad.

For what it's worth, the invasion of Taiwan is considered by military planners to be an important flash point for World War 3. It would be bloody, and very likely nuclear, and pull in nearby nations like Japan, and will likely end with hundreds of millions (possibly billions) dead.

You need to put 2 and 2 together. The fact that we know it's a 'flash point for World War 3' is exactly why it would not be defended ;)
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