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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#161

Post by friendlybus »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I don’t get the privacy implications. Making a few assumptions here. Government can already get your location data and internet data from telco’s and Microsoft, your identity from bank purchases and social circle from fb/inferences from data. What’s left that a phone could provide, encrypted chat?

Coronavirus app is the least to worry about.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#162

Post by inshadows »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Government fan cries: Leave government alone!

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#163

Post by barbs »

shermozle wrote: post #52
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Nope. Why is it normal to take a few weeks to release the source? If it's good enough to release its good enough o publish openly. This government has ample form. If you want my recommendation you need to open it up.

Especially since the upstream project appears to be GPL-licensed. Sure, they could have contacted the original developer and obtained a different license, but why would they do that? As far as we can tell, it looks like a breach of the license.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#164

Post by barbs »

tzs wrote: post #84
zelphirkalt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this specific case, it would be a grave mistake to license under anything, which does not contain a copyleft to make sure they release the source code as well and grant the 4 freedoms.

If I'm understanding this right, this app was written by the Australian government. Does the license for any libraries or other outside code they have included even matter? Generally, governments have what is called "sovereign immunity" when it comes to civil lawsuits. They can only be sued if they decide to allow it. Some countries waive their sovereign immunity for specific laws. For example US copyright law waives…

I think it's less about whether or not they can get sued for breaching the license than it is about being transparent and trustworthy.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#165

Post by friendlybus »

salan781 wrote: post #80
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Even if the government has the best intentions in this instance, it doesn’t matter. They have already created a set of laws that clearly dictate that this app and this data can be used how ever intelligence communities desire. They have burned all goodwill and trust with the public. It doesn’t matter what they say today unless they repeal AABill etc. Otherwise they’re just saying empty words.

Why do you think intelligence agencies stick to the law. Half the stuff the Aussie gov is taking flak for is what GCHQ and the NSA were doing in secret before the public even knew about it.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#166

Post by wavegeek »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

> open source code

The promise of open source code. Which is a very different thing.

Note that this government also promised to get rid of the budget deficit. But did not do so. They have told many other lies and have earned the right to be distrusted.

With this app, if I get the disease and authorise disclosure, it will disclose to government agents the people I have been in contact with. Or, to put it another way, the people who have been in contact with me. Without their consent or knowledge.

TLDR it is not confidential safe or secure.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#167

Post by wavegeek »

discordance wrote: post #45
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

Income tax was introduced as a "temporary measure" to pay for WWII.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#168

Post by barbs »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #141
jfoster wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeking completely perfect solutions in a time of crisis where a "good enough" solution might save a lot of lives. Cut them some slack for trying to stem the harm of the pandemic. This situation affects every human.

You seem to be implying a reproducible build is difficult. It can be, if someone hasn't done it before. But in this case fdroid has done it before, and publishes how to do it.

Is there a way to implement reproducible builds for apps released on Google Play? Because that's where the vast majority of people will be downloading the app from.

Also, I don't think there's any such solution for iOS.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#169

Post by wavegeek »

endual wrote: post #125
jfoster wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe that they are trying to do something other than stem the harm from this pandemic, or are you just protesting about something they did in the past that you're not happy about? If it is the latter, have you considered the harm that your protest may be doing?

That's a false dichotomy. They could be totally fine with the intent of this app, but concerned with its potential secondary effects. And "something they did in the past" suggests they have stopped doing it.

> "something they did in the past" suggests they have stopped doing it.

No it doesn't. All evidence of their proclivities is from the past. It means they have form, a record, of bad behaviour.

Remember how the use of the Tax File Number was going to be strictly limited? And have you noticed you cannot scratch your bum without quoting it now?

Mission creep is a thing.

My own impression from observing his public behaviour is that Scott Morrison is a lying liar who tells lies when convenient to himself.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#170

Post by friendlybus »

lysp wrote: post #56
PudgePacket wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aus gov has a terrible track record with information systems. Data leaks & breaches, flaky IT services, mass robo-debt claims of which 600,000 needed to be re-evaluated. Not to mention rushing through privacy destroying laws citing "Islamist terrorism, paedophile networks and organised crime". If you are who I think you are you're probably more knowledgable of the particular 2018 law than me. And now they're "rushing…

Assistance and Access Bill: https://www.zdnet.com/article/whats-actually-in-australias-e... Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Amendment (Data Retention) Bill: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32061421 Peter Dutton's proposed "give me your password" law: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/peter-dutton-p... > Under the proposals, people who are not even suspected of a crime would face a fi…

Data retention is what GCHQ has been doing for years regardless of laws.

Dutton is an ultra conservative border protector type, don’t expect all his proposals to pass.

How many DEFCons and CCC conferences do you have to go to before you hear a rubber hose cryptography joke?

Dan Greer’s realpolitik talk in 2015 mentions that cyber security is all aggression little defence. If it were a soccer game it would be 421-420 at the 20minute mark. The best of the best in the US struggle with this stuff behind closed doors, seeing Australia take the flak in public is fine, but don’t pretend US and UK are innocent. These proposals are not the leading edge of privacy invasion.

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