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The plans to reopen the economy are scary

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161–170 of 214 posts

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#161

It’ll be interesting to see if public k—12 schools will let older teachers teach from home, while forcing students to show up to the physical virus breeding grounds.

I think this whole phenomena has led to a nuanced discrimination of age in the essential services workforce.

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to rip on you, it's important to notice problems, but that seems very solvable. Just require some minimum duration of proximity before you alert.

It's not that easy. Social networks, particular urban dense ones have the characteristics of small world networks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-world_network ). The distance between every person in a city is maybe 5-6 individuals. You can imagine how many hundred people you stand next to, how many people they stand next to, and so on. So if say, the chance of being infected in an interaction is say 5%, then t…

No, that doesn't seem rational. Only the distance 1 people should be alerted - that's how it works in existing contact tracing systems.

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my state (Ohio) at least, protest are starting to form on the legality and length of shutting down businesses. It's still only a handful of people but seems to be growing every day. There is a very slim chance the government can enact shut downs for long and still maintain authority

If the government loses authority, what entity would fill the power vacuum?

The governor is the one power tripping at the moment, state legislatures could figure something out

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#165
post #5

Oh my god, the system described by the CAP plan covered in this article cannot be allowed to come into being. Instant dystopian nightmare state. This kind of tool can't be un-made.

I proposed an app [1] owned by WHO to do the tracking, almost nobody cared. Now governments will handle it, as they want.

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/proposal-way-reduce-coronavir...

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#166

When are we just going to admit that our choices are: 1) indefinite lockdown 2) everyone gets the virus Between a 0.5% chance of dying, and life imprisonment, I'd take my chances.

Your chance of getting a severe case of you are infected is 5-10% or something similar. That’s a case that you want to have a hospital bed for, maybe an ICU bed. If all beds are taken then many of those severe cases will kill people. Say mortality is 3% instead of 0.5% once hospital capacity runs out. Assume 60% need to get it before we have herd immunity. I don’t think 3% mortality without healthcare is pessimistic.…

This state of affairs is not life. I would kill myself if we have to do this for a year.

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#167
post #85
post #40

For how much I understand the need to lower the curve and reduce the R0 of the infection, I start to see also another argument. We are basically pausing the life of younger people, indefinitely, to protect the elders. Again, since the quarantine started in my area I exist twice to buy groceries and that's all. So I understand the need and the importance of it. But should I really throw away on year of my life? Should…

30 year old guy died where I live, recently. He leaves behind a young family. Do not pretend this can't hurt young people, badly.

There's also a 12 years old girl dead in Belgium.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/31/12-year-old-belgian-girl-becom...

The article also contains accounts of two more youngsters dead, at 14 and 16.

This thing can kill anyone.

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your chance of getting a severe case of you are infected is 5-10% or something similar. That’s a case that you want to have a hospital bed for, maybe an ICU bed. If all beds are taken then many of those severe cases will kill people. Say mortality is 3% instead of 0.5% once hospital capacity runs out. Assume 60% need to get it before we have herd immunity. I don’t think 3% mortality without healthcare is pessimistic.…

This state of affairs is not life. I would kill myself if we have to do this for a year.

I’m sorry. You should try to talk to someone about that.

My restrictions at this point (Sweden) shows that with luck, perhaps restrictions don’t have to mean house arrest.

Complete lockdowns aren’t sustainable. I think countries will converge on a “new normal” which is far from lockdowns, while not “normal”.

Re: The plans to reopen the economy are scary

#169

When are we just going to admit that our choices are: 1) indefinite lockdown 2) everyone gets the virus Between a 0.5% chance of dying, and life imprisonment, I'd take my chances.

Here's the thing though, that binary choice is predicated on what we know right now, tomorrow we may know more, and we will definitely know more in a few weeks, in a month or two we may know enough that we have better choices to make. Our ability to treat this virus is very limited right now, but that may not be true in a month, so just throwing up your hands and saying let everyone die now when we don't have good tr…

This, precisely. Maybe we find better treatment (especially treatment that reduces the incidence of patients needing hospitalization or ventilators). Maybe we get testing technology widespread enough that we don't have to treat everyone like they're positive unless proven otherwise. Maybe we get antibody tests that allow us to figure out who isn't immunologically naive to the virus. Maybe we learn more about how it spreads. Maybe we learn more about why some people are asymptomatic.

Basically there are countless ways in which quality of life can be improved over time as we continue to maximize efforts to contain spread.

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