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Omni Group Layoffs

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Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#161

Post by microtonal »

mantap wrote: post #144
taneq wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer of software there are three MAJOR problems with the subscription model: 1) If it's for a piece of software I use on an ongoing basis the cost often rapidly eclipses what I'd have paid for standalone software, and it never stops rising. 2) There's usually some awkwardly contrived cloud tie-in, purely to enforce subscriptions, which breaks the software if your internet connection or the supplier's servers…

> If it's for a piece of software I use on an ongoing basis the cost often rapidly eclipses what I'd have paid for standalone software, and it never stops rising High quality software has always required a recurring payment model. It's not viable to sell standalone versions to a new set of customers each year. In the past this was informal with upgrade versions every year. You could theoretically choose not to upgrad…

but neither do the maintenance costs.

That depends. On macOS the churn is high. But there are probably a lot of Windows applications from the nineties that still run unmodified.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#162

Post by new2628 »

dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

OK, I'll bite. I have a fundamental aversion to paying for something that has zero marginal cost. I feel I'm taken for a ride if I do so.

If I pay for a book, I feel it cost some effort to produce it physically, print it, bind it, ship it. I cannot force myself to pay for an e-book, which is a pdf copied at no extra cost. Same for digital music and software or any other digital "good" or subscription. I sympathise with the creators, if they will produce something that does not scale, I will pay them for it. Otherwise, sorry, but not my job to figure out their business models.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#163

Post by JoeAltmaier »

new2628 wrote: post #162
dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

OK, I'll bite. I have a fundamental aversion to paying for something that has zero marginal cost. I feel I'm taken for a ride if I do so. If I pay for a book, I feel it cost some effort to produce it physically, print it, bind it, ship it. I cannot force myself to pay for an e-book, which is a pdf copied at no extra cost. Same for digital music and software or any other digital "good" or subscription. I sympathise wi…

I also have that aversion. But regard, zero marginal cost doesn't mean 'zero cost'. There's overhead to amortize. Like, the effort to have a company that hosts that stuff. And the desire to run a for-profit company, else we'd all be at the mercy of volunteer organizations.

They seem to have 'figured out' their business model already, and it involves each person copying the PDF, paying a nominal fee.

FWIW

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#164

Post by mantap »

microtonal wrote: post #161
mantap wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's for a piece of software I use on an ongoing basis the cost often rapidly eclipses what I'd have paid for standalone software, and it never stops rising High quality software has always required a recurring payment model. It's not viable to sell standalone versions to a new set of customers each year. In the past this was informal with upgrade versions every year. You could theoretically choose not to upgrad…

but neither do the maintenance costs. That depends. On macOS the churn is high. But there are probably a lot of Windows applications from the nineties that still run unmodified.

macOS indeed requires additional effort. But regardless of that customers tend to get annoyed and stop giving you money if you don't ever fix their bug reports.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#165

Post by microtonal »

7777fps wrote: post #118
linguae wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me a lot of presentation slides that I read a few nights ago. I was reading presentation slides from Carnegie Mellon professor Heather Miller about the funding challenges that open source software projects have ( https://2019.programming-conference.org/details/programming-... ). So many people and companies rely on open source infrastructure and productivity tools, and while there are plenty of people co…

What's wrong with the subscription model? Vendors get recurring money and aren't incentivized to make sweeping changes to have major releases to get more money for the same product; consumers can manage cash flow by only paying while they need it, there is a lower barrier to purchase, and vendors have more predictable income.

I think subscriptions will be terrible for vendors in the end as well.

First, because they have to compete with the likes of Office 365, which offers an Office Suite, 1TB cloud storage, and 60 Skype minutes (at least the used to) for little over 5 Euro per month. Subscriptions for more basic programs will look overpriced in comparison.

Second, as subscriptions become the new normal, we will see services like Apple Arcade. I think Apple Arcade will eventually eat up a lot of revenue as casual gamers will move from purchasing games to the 'all you can eat' Arcade. If Apple Arcade turns out to be successful, what holds them from launching 'App Arcade' [1]? Vendors that don't get into the App Arcade will lose a lot of revenue, vendors that do get into App Arcade will have a steady source of income, but will also be completely at the mercy of Apple (or Microsoft).

[1] I know there is SetApp, but anything that Apple launches has a lot more visibility. They also have more clout to get high profile applications in such a service.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#166

Post by nstart »

Oof. This is a little upsetting to me. Inessential has been on my RSS feed forever and I've enjoyed reading it for a long time. Makes me feel somehow connected to what's going on with Brent because he's written about his work at Omni so much. Hope he finds a company to work with soon. Tough times :(

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#167

Post by new2628 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #163
new2628 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll bite. I have a fundamental aversion to paying for something that has zero marginal cost. I feel I'm taken for a ride if I do so. If I pay for a book, I feel it cost some effort to produce it physically, print it, bind it, ship it. I cannot force myself to pay for an e-book, which is a pdf copied at no extra cost. Same for digital music and software or any other digital "good" or subscription. I sympathise wi…

I also have that aversion. But regard, zero marginal cost doesn't mean 'zero cost'. There's overhead to amortize. Like, the effort to have a company that hosts that stuff. And the desire to run a for-profit company, else we'd all be at the mercy of volunteer organizations. They seem to have 'figured out' their business model already, and it involves each person copying the PDF, paying a nominal fee. FWIW

You make a good point of course -- my issue is that this amortization has become totally divorced from use. For example, a taxi driver also needs to amortize the upfront cost of their car, but the more they drive, the more the car wears down, so it is all predictable, and somehow feels "fair". With digital goods, you may sell it twice, or a billion times, what you earn is independent of how much cost you sunk into it (apart from hosting and other infrastructure as you mention) -- which explains the runaway successes of our times, but it's just something I am unwilling to participate in :)

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#168

Post by techybuddha »

joeberon wrote: post #120

Unfortunately Omni's software is pretty old and bloated at this point, although I've only used OmniFocus and OmniGraffle. The former is very powerful but this is a blessing and a curse, in that the UX is very cluttered and quite intimidating. I honestly think that Things has exceeded it now, being less customisable but also capturing the essence of what makes OmniFocus good without getting bogged down in too much cus…

We will all be old and bloated one day. Hopefully society treats us as well as Omni has treated their employees over the last decade.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#169

Post by [deleted] »

mwcampbell wrote: post #128
pabs3 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you "subscribe" to open source software?

It's time for us to give up on the dream of having good software for free. That's what this whole thread is about. It's a wake-up call for us all. We have to pay for what we value.

[deleted]

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#170

Post by chrisseaton »

pabs3 wrote: post #124
7777fps wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the subscription model? Vendors get recurring money and aren't incentivized to make sweeping changes to have major releases to get more money for the same product; consumers can manage cash flow by only paying while they need it, there is a lower barrier to purchase, and vendors have more predictable income.

How do you "subscribe" to open source software?

How were you paying for open source software before?

Were you paying for something like a Linux distribution? You can often do that on a subscription as well if you want to.

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