Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus • Hacker News Board

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#161

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

beepboopbeep wrote: post #157

didgeoridoo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can, or they cannot. The media lying about the effectiveness of masks for several weeks was “right” in that it probably allowed hospitals to refresh their stockpiles before mass panic buying set in. But it was a lie nonetheless. Same with the “coronavirus is a virus, Purell is useless because it is antibacterial” meme. The media is burning its credibility in favor of noble lies — but at the end, will it be worth…

Yes, of course it's worth it. The media's credibility isn't a finite resource. It ebbs and flows like everything else in this world. Nothing is as binary as you see it.

Over what time span?

If what you say is true we should have seen trust in the media go up and down a lot over time. In fact it's really only gone down, with one exception - in the USA after Trump got elected trust in the media went up amongst Democrats only. Presumably because they realised the media was completely partisan and in their "tribe". Trust amongst Republicans, which like Democrats had been falling for a long time, completely collapsed at that point.

In most parts of the world it's just been one downward slide.

In these events I don't think the media deserve the blame though. They're not helping but they're not pushing a pre-determined agenda, I think. The evidence that we're in the grip of mass hysteria and not a deadly pandemic is growing enormously every day, and much of that evidence actually is being surfaced in newspaper reports. It's just not affecting the overall narrative yet.

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#162

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

tarr11 wrote: post #71

save_ferris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re also dealing with the fallout of living in a “post-truth” era, where we as a society can no longer agree with basic facts. Yes, it’s exceedingly rare to see a case like this, but what’s not rare is seeing the examples of people not taking this disease seriously, even some public officials. Getting people to cooperate with drastic disease mitigation efforts won’t happen if there’s a probability embedded in that…

When was this “golden age of truth” era that we are now after? There have always been conspiracies, mystics, cults and anti science sentiments. Do you have any evidence to show it’s worse than it ever was?

Do you have any evidence to show it’s worse than it ever was?

I guess you can't measure truth in an absolute sense, but you can measure people's perception of it, and trust in institutions - especially the press - is at all time lows.

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#163

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 1:15 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #141

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you've understood it correctly. The data strongly suggests that COVID-19 isn't a deadly disease for otherwise healthy people, and any apparently healthy young people who die from it are most likely "errors and odd cases". (Although framing it that way could imply too strong of a conclusion - comorbidities in the study include hypertension and diabetes, which aren't exactly rare.)

The hospitalization rates for younger people in Italy and NYC don’t paint such a rosy picture though. While deaths are rare, it’s still a very nasty disease for many younger people, and we don’t have much data yet on potential long term effects.

No, we don't, but what people are interested in here is the lockdowns and when they can end - totally or partly.

The hospitalisations of young people all so far appear to be exceptional cases. This is also true of the reports of "fully healthy people". So far every case I'm aware of like that has turned out to be a lie. It implies the lockdowns could be restricted to the elderly and the frail.

In one case in the UK a woman under 40 was admitted to ICU with no pre-existing health conditions. Worrying, right? She'd been taking 8 ibuprofen a day. Ibuprofen suppresses the immune system and 8 per day is a staggeringly high overdose. The maximum dose for an adult is 4 per day so she was killing her immune system completely.

In another case there was a death of a young person in Spain, reported as no pre-existing conditions. After the death he was diagnosed with an unrecognised leukemia.

It's very likely given how extreme the statistical evidence is that basically all such cases have some sort of mitigating factor. Young people who are healthy and not doing stupid things don't seem to die or even get critically ill.

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#164

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #124

mbeex wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone died of COVID possibly > and didn’t have other health factors an aunt is saying so > who was young the only thing that can be regarded as certain

Have you put this level of skepticism on the news reports about old people dying? Those details will be proven true or untrue by more official sources, and probably today. My point was not that I know they're true, it's that they are facts that can be checked. But I have no specific reason to be more skeptical of this report than of any other COVID deaths I've read about, do you?

Yes. Such reports also deserve to be examined skeptically.

The big problem surfacing at the moment is deaths being reported as 'caused by covid' when they're in reality deaths that were about to happen anyway, and the victim happened to be infected e.g. cancer sufferers who were already in terminal decline.

There's increasing evidence that the excess death rate - deaths that truly wouldn't have happened if not for COVID - might be nearly zero.

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#165

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

beepboopbeep wrote: post #157

didgeoridoo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can, or they cannot. The media lying about the effectiveness of masks for several weeks was “right” in that it probably allowed hospitals to refresh their stockpiles before mass panic buying set in. But it was a lie nonetheless. Same with the “coronavirus is a virus, Purell is useless because it is antibacterial” meme. The media is burning its credibility in favor of noble lies — but at the end, will it be worth…

Yes, of course it's worth it. The media's credibility isn't a finite resource. It ebbs and flows like everything else in this world. Nothing is as binary as you see it.

But again, you must see the problem here. To consider the media's credibility a resource at all is a post-truth concept. It presumes that the media is targeted towards a bunch of rubes, who've gotta be manipulated towards the goals you and I know are best. The natural result is exactly the trend we're seeing; almost everyone who pays attention says "well, I'm not a rube, so I guess I'd better get my real information elsewhere".

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#166

Post by danenania » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #163

danenania wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hospitalization rates for younger people in Italy and NYC don’t paint such a rosy picture though. While deaths are rare, it’s still a very nasty disease for many younger people, and we don’t have much data yet on potential long term effects.

No, we don't, but what people are interested in here is the lockdowns and when they can end - totally or partly. The hospitalisations of young people all so far appear to be exceptional cases. This is also true of the reports of "fully healthy people". So far every case I'm aware of like that has turned out to be a lie. It implies the lockdowns could be restricted to the elderly and the frail. In one case in the UK a…

"The hospitalisations of young people all so far appear to be exceptional cases."

This is just wrong. The numbers are changing all the time, but as of a few days ago, 38% of hospitalized coronavirus patients in the US were between 20 and 54.

Re: Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus

#167

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #166

thu2111 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't, but what people are interested in here is the lockdowns and when they can end - totally or partly. The hospitalisations of young people all so far appear to be exceptional cases. This is also true of the reports of "fully healthy people". So far every case I'm aware of like that has turned out to be a lie. It implies the lockdowns could be restricted to the elderly and the frail. In one case in the UK a…

"The hospitalisations of young people all so far appear to be exceptional cases." This is just wrong. The numbers are changing all the time, but as of a few days ago, 38% of hospitalized coronavirus patients in the US were between 20 and 54.

Sorry, you're right, I was meaning fatalities.